• Those wishing to contribute to the game by making suggestions (both small and large) should read the following before doing so.

    Bushtarion largely runs completely automatically, and has been designed intentionally to be as self-maintaining as possible, with mechanics and balance considered at a completed point.

    Please do not spend large amounts of time coming up with complex suggestions in the hope that they will be read and possibly implemented in the future, unless you just enjoy the discussion, theory-craft, and such.

    The most likely changes will be rules-changes, specific number-tweaks to units, techs, and similar sorts of changes, and only if a large community consensus is reached as "proof" that a change would, overall, be an improvement, and are more likely to be done in batches, occassionally, not as a regular thing.

Public alliances

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Alcibiades

Plant Geneticist
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This has been done so many times. Smaller alliances = more burnout = less players. Period. Discussion over.

This is the optimum balance. It's not opinion, it is fact.
 

willymchilybily

Landscape Designer
Joined
Dec 14, 2007
Messages
1,418
Location
uk
wow this is like a time warp, people suggesting public alliances and others suggesting small alliance sizes. Déjà vu

haha. then someone should start listening....

or maybe you should start using the search function ;) ,
Public alliance discussion previously

Even azzer wanted public alliances.

As for Zaheen, well theres no hope for him hes created several of the "change alliance size" threads that have been argued to death and normally not in favour. particularly as alliance sizes have been played with in the past and its about at its optimum atm.

Ps know it wasnt recent. but looking over some old posts. i think Hell were public, and some one else from the start.. and didnt hell win? or maybe i just got my wires crossed, i think i was solo that round so barely remeber

To be the devil's advocate on Zaheen's post, alliance sizes being optimum now is matter of opinion, not fact. You should consider the fact that not all your thoughts are as is, or the most true despite your knowledge of the game. :)

This has been done so many times. Smaller alliances = more burnout = less players. Period. Discussion over.

This is the optimum balance. It's not opinion, it is fact.

Agree with alci, & I only said what i said because you made a snide remark on me not listening(reading fyi). when actually i read your post (I read everyones posts, because my posts are normally long and so i feel if i dont read other peoples no one will read mine). It is old ground, been done. feel free to re-adress it, but no reason to start a new thread. unless your suggestion is a significant variation

[ignore] (I really really really do not want any one to respond to this and debate it further in this thread,)
As for alliance size it is pretty much fact. Alliance size determines how easy it is to attack/defend, and is best to be set by how many mobs a person can send and attack range [and land score value](IMO). Eg 10% attack range would warrent bigger alliances as it would require more people to defend the potential incoming. but people suggesting the change due to changes in playerbase size just dont get the dynamic or the reality.(imo). Also it is fact because we have had 40 member alliance sizes iirc. and we have had 15member sizes. (iirc my first full round 15man private 40m public r8 ish) and it worked then because land didnt = score. but since then going too big or too small =bad irrelavent of player base size. So a change in alliance size should only really accompany changes in game mechanics/limits. tried and tested[/ignore]
 

xvi

Harvester
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Feb 8, 2009
Messages
174
Location
Idaho, USA
well if alci says so i agree. we dont want anyone to burn out. i mean, burn out rate is at an all time low right now.

discworld ftw
 

Alcibiades

Plant Geneticist
Joined
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Messages
4,267
Location
Canada
well if alci says so i agree. we dont want anyone to burn out. i mean, burn out rate is at an all time low right now.

discworld ftw

I'm always right. Glad to have your support

Changing alliance sizes to larger or smaller won't reduce burnout, it will almost always just increase it.
 

LuckySports

Landscape Designer
Joined
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Messages
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Nonya
[ignore] (I really really really do not want any one to respond to this and debate it further in this thread,)
As for alliance size it is pretty much fact. Alliance size determines how easy it is to attack/defend, and is best to be set by how many mobs a person can send and attack range [and land score value](IMO). Eg 10% attack range would warrent bigger alliances as it would require more people to defend the potential incoming. but people suggesting the change due to changes in playerbase size just dont get the dynamic or the reality.(imo). Also it is fact because we have had 40 member alliance sizes iirc. and we have had 15member sizes. (iirc my first full round 15man private 40m public r8 ish) and it worked then because land didnt = score. but since then going too big or too small =bad irrelavent of player base size. So a change in alliance size should only really accompany changes in game mechanics/limits. tried and tested[/ignore]



*Argues*

Kidding, yea, I believe that was R8. And 15 man alliances haven't been able to work in AGES.. I remember doing it in R28 and I got burnt out quick. It would most definitely hurt the game more than help. People that suggest smaller alliance sizes are usually the ones attacking smaller alliances.. :p
 

Zaheen

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This has been done so many times. Smaller alliances = more burnout = less players. Period. Discussion over.

This is the optimum balance. It's not opinion, it is fact.
More burnout for scum perhaps? You are against this because you know your alliance would be raped into next century. The player base is too small for the current alliance sizes, the round is usually over in the first week every round. You think that's not going to burn players out?

Get off your high horse just this once Sir Alci, and see it from my point of view. It's because of people like you that the player base has decreased. When I first started playing it was increasing. I play the same way as I do now, as I did back then and people really had fun, from me, anyone like me, anyone not like me - just EVERYONE in general. I had a massive number of friends, and an even bigger number of enemies - who all showed a great deal of respect even inside the game, they were nice, they had a laugh, they knew how to have fun.

Now? You guys seem to think you know everything about this game, and what's good for it. People come on the forums to see what the game is like, and to get a feel for the community. I would run a mile if I ever saw some of the crap you post Alci, I hate playing games where most of the politics are dictated by moronics. It's a but like the US Goverment, and the British one - hell, the whole world is messed up beyond most peoples imagination.

End of discission.

Nah, I kid you all. I cannot control the end of this discussion, and neither can you.

willy, I know the land score changed - I was around when it happened, along with many other huge adjustments, but back then people didn't use to sleep with their mobile phones glued to their rear ends making it almost impossible for some people to ever kill a target, let alone land on them.

This game has changed, and it's not fun anymore - that's why people leave. People stay when there is blood shed, NOT SCOREQUEENS.

I'm a classic example of my above statement, people would stay all round just to kick my ass.

On Topic

Alliance sizes could be anything, a player base wipe will be down to the players who control the round - back in the olden days when people couldn't afford a mobile phone to be woken up at nights to run away, everyone use to have a load more fun. People stay on games to have fun, people leave games when they stop having fun, and if you involve this game into IRL by giving your number out to the world then you are just sad on every level. Some new players would never give their number, and be declined from alliances due to this, I even hear from vets who are afraid not to give their number to some of you "FTW" leaders.

FTW - the death of Bushtarion, the biggest cause of the player wipe and lack of motivation for most.

There is no skill in winning anymore, all it takes is a lot of cheap tactics and scorequeening

Calling up your male lovers to save their pixel troops, OMG_CGERF_PLOX_OMG_WE_LOST_SO_WE_ARE_NOW_FTF!

Rank 1 is only skillful when you are solo with none, or crappy PNaps.

Why doesn't the top alliance all split up and go solo anymore? Break off into two anymore? Stretch out the round, involve more people, give yourselves more of a challenge as opposed to being complete and utter NERDS who may jump off a cliffe if they lose some troops!

Give the game some life back. Pack your phones in and play for fun, people use them because they don't want to be at a disadvantage. Like in any game full of cheaters, it's not fun unless you have the cheats yourself. No I didn't say having a mobile phone was a cheat, but it might as well be.
 
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Ogluk

Official Helper
Community Operator
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Jun 3, 2008
Messages
764
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Bracknell
Give the game some life back. Pack your phones in and play for fun, people use them because they don't want to be at a disadvantage. Like in any game full of cheaters, it's not fun unless you have the cheats yourself. No I didn't say having a mobile phone was a cheat, but it might as well be.

instead spend an inhuman amount of time online and no life it like you do? ;o
 

LuckySports

Landscape Designer
Joined
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Messages
1,243
Location
Nonya
Zaheen is only opposed to the winning alliance because he can't stand to play for a group of friends instead of himself. That's why he's always solo. (Not saying solos only play for themselves.. ) When you play for your friends, you want to be there to help them. THATS why most of us are contactable. try getting up at 3am to organize defense for your alliance, and set yourself as a land-hit before assigning anything. Learn to play like that and you might actually enjoy the game.
 

Zaheen

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802
Location
The Clouds
Give the game some life back. Pack your phones in and play for fun, people use them because they don't want to be at a disadvantage. Like in any game full of cheaters, it's not fun unless you have the cheats yourself. No I didn't say having a mobile phone was a cheat, but it might as well be.

instead spend an inhuman amount of time online and no life it like you do? ;o
I was waiting for that, and well I suppose I have gone a little too far.

I have actually had a kidney infection all this week, I've had serious back pains for over a week now, and well I'm pretty much paralyzed at home, unable to eat, sit, walk, move, and even sleep comfortably.

I'm waiting on the test results to come then, and then you'll see my activity drop when I'm allowed to live my life how I was doing. You are entitled to your opinion though, I am ok with this.

Zaheen is only opposed to the winning alliance because he can't stand to play for a group of friends instead of himself. That's why he's always solo. (Not saying solos only play for themselves.. ) When you play for your friends, you want to be there to help them. THATS why most of us are contactable. try getting up at 3am to organize defense for your alliance, and set yourself as a land-hit before assigning anything. Learn to play like that and you might actually enjoy the game.
That's why I have spent all my funds buying 40M Hippies, and completely destroying how I would normally play to defend my PNaps, who don't even login to say thanks most of the time?

You mean that? There is so much wrong with your post Lucky I don't even know where to start, all of it is just all wrong, it's a complete pack of lies, all of it. I cannot believe you just asked me to "Learn how to play the game." I thought it was funny you making a training alliance though, I think the players you trained were worse off after being with you because you suck that badly.

If people want training, the best training they will ever get is solo, with advice. The rest is experience - and I'm starting to get the impression you have none at all, with all the crap you keep coming out with.

But you're excused, you live in America.
 

LuckySports

Landscape Designer
Joined
Jul 7, 2008
Messages
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Nonya
Moron talk

Yeah, sure.. I remember that ally, you joined it for what, a day? You started a feud with several of my members within minutes..

Bought 30m hippies to defend your allies? You bought them to defend yourself! You forget I know what your ID is..

Every nub that joined my ally learned the most important thing you can learn in the game if you want to stay around.. Rebuilding. My training ally did better than most other alliances that round, finishing 6th after 2 members got deleted for breaking the 30 minute rule (guy and his girlfriend).

Which brings me to another point, what have you contributed to the long-term survival of the game? All you ever do is make the same bad suggestions (which are constantly shot down) and troll and flame.

And I don't live in the US, if you knew anything about me, you'd know that much..

In fact, in about 6 months I'll be in England.
 

Max

Garden Designer
Joined
Dec 14, 2007
Messages
1,015
Location
London
Zaheen is only opposed to the winning alliance because he can't stand to play for a group of friends instead of himself. That's why he's always solo. (Not saying solos only play for themselves.. ) When you play for your friends, you want to be there to help them. THATS why most of us are contactable. try getting up at 3am to organize defense for your alliance, and set yourself as a land-hit before assigning anything. Learn to play like that and you might actually enjoy the game.

Just for the record Zaheen is actually quite capable of making a lot of friends, in fact you would be surprised just how much he cares about his comrades :O

He played alongside Melons for the end of last round and really cared about the team, helping them to learn and defend. The only reason he prefers solo is because he cares TOO much, which then absorbs his life :p (You can ask whether playing pure solo absorbs his life less, which is quite difficult to argue on current statistics I admit!)

As for the contactability issue, I'd agree with you to a certain extent. YES you want to be able to help your bush comrades, but when this starts to intefere with real life companionship I think getting interrupted by phone calls is a very bad thing. If you don't have a real life outside of bush, of course, then this isn't a problem :D
 

LuckySports

Landscape Designer
Joined
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Messages
1,243
Location
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Zaheen is only opposed to the winning alliance because he can't stand to play for a group of friends instead of himself. That's why he's always solo. (Not saying solos only play for themselves.. ) When you play for your friends, you want to be there to help them. THATS why most of us are contactable. try getting up at 3am to organize defense for your alliance, and set yourself as a land-hit before assigning anything. Learn to play like that and you might actually enjoy the game.

Just for the record Zaheen is actually quite capable of making a lot of friends, in fact you would be surprised just how much he cares about his comrades :O

He played alongside Melons for the end of last round and really cared about the team, helping them to learn and defend. The only reason he prefers solo is because he cares TOO much, which then absorbs his life :p (You can ask whether playing pure solo absorbs his life less, which is quite difficult to argue on current statistics I admit!)

As for the contactability issue, I'd agree with you to a certain extent. YES you want to be able to help your bush comrades, but when this starts to intefere with real life companionship I think getting interrupted by phone calls is a very bad thing. If you don't have a real life outside of bush, of course, then this isn't a problem :D

First off.. Real life > Bush.. always :p I'll play at work as long as I can check bush in-between projects or T.O. steps.

2ndly, I have NEVER seen zaheen try to help anyone. maybe he did it in melons, but he didn't even try to help my nubs when he joined BT back in round 36. all he did was try to start a fight with a couple of my nubs.
 

Zaheen

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First off.. Real life > Bush.. always :p
How many years has it taken you to realise that?

2ndly, I have NEVER seen zaheen try to help anyone. maybe he did it in melons, but he didn't even try to help my nubs when he joined BT back in round 36. all he did was try to start a fight with a couple of my nubs.
You are wrong once again, I tried to help - but your noobs were so naive due to all the nonsense you had been telling them, that they chose to argue with me.

Which is fine, that's why I left - I don't like to argue with noobs, I just left you all to have a nice little noobie alliance.

____

Best way to learn is rebuilding? What are you nuts? You must be, the best way is by not dying at all, and if it does happen then regrowing and booming like you have never boomed before. Maybe, what you said, but I'm saying it better.

You're wrong Lucky, and there's no reason at all for you to tell me you're coming to the UK. You should stay in America, at least you have an excuse for being such a douche.
 
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LuckySports

Landscape Designer
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Messages
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Zaheen - all the nubs in my ally took advice quite well. You didn't give them advice, you called them stupid and insulted them without ever quite getting around to saying why.


Best thing to learn is to not die at all? Sounds to me like your just a big score-queen. Part of rebuilding is coming back stronger than before, so my statement still stands.


Life has always come first, maybe one day YOU'LL learn that, and go make a few friends irl.


And once again.. irony in you calling me a douche.. Asshole, maybe.. I could see that, I don't put up with bull as much as I did years ago.
 

Zaheen

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Yeah, sure.. I remember that ally, you joined it for what, a day? You started a feud with several of my members within minutes..
BS.

Bought 30m hippies to defend your allies? You bought them to defend yourself! You forget I know what your ID is..
What's your point? My ID was leaked as always, what have you clowns done about it?

If you had spies, you would know exactly why I bought the Hippies. It was to shut up the cry babies complaining about the CG nerf, and because my WK's would have died, so I bought more to make sure my PNap was covered.

Every nub that joined my ally learned the most important thing you can learn in the game if you want to stay around.. Rebuilding. My training ally did better than most other alliances that round, finishing 6th after 2 members got deleted for breaking the 30 minute rule (guy and his girlfriend).
So none of them read the EULA or manual? They must be real pro now.

Which brings me to another point, what have you contributed to the long-term survival of the game? All you ever do is make the same bad suggestions (which are constantly shot down) and troll and flame.
A lot more than you can ever imagine. Extensive unit changes throughout rounds, all of the solo abuse which once was allowed, is no longer allowed, lots of changes to soloists. Bots were my idea, because Azzer has been my neighbour for almost 15 years how the hell would you know what I have or haven't suggested for the game? How many CHEATERS I have found. How fun I make rounds when I play them, how many enemies I make in game, how many people love my mails before they find out who I am. You don't know because you're nothing but a little flea, who sees one thing when they load up Bushtarion, and that's their score.

You can remember all my bad suggestions, but amongs the 100's I have posted, there are many good ones. Your ignorance amazes me.

This is why the game is dying, no matter what Azzer does to it, people like you will always fault the bad things. You are doing the same against me, when you clearly don't know me at all. All your posts against me are personal issues, and I cannot understand why other than the fact you are jealous of my good lucks and skill, something you will never, ever, have.

And I don't live in the US, if you knew anything about me, you'd know that much..
It doesn't matter to me where you live.

In fact, in about 6 months I'll be in England.
Thanks for letting me know.
_____


Zaheen - all the nubs in my ally took advice quite well. You didn't give them advice, you called them stupid and insulted them without ever quite getting around to saying why.
It never once occured to me that you are a compulsive liar. I gave them all advice, they listened to none of it and I got annoyed because they started swearing to me. I defended myself.

Best thing to learn is to not die at all? Sounds to me like your just a big score-queen. Part of rebuilding is coming back stronger than before, so my statement still stands.
I'm a score queen? I think I'm one of the only players to ever play Bushtarion and delete at Solo rank 1 with 40k acres, and an infinite numbers of times in the top 10-20 as solo with 10-15k acres. If I was such a score queen, I would be holding out for the end of the round for a portal finish. (A bit like what you do, LOSER).

Life has always come first, maybe one day YOU'LL learn that, and go make a few friends irl.
Umm, it's why I played Round 8, bits of 10, 11, 17, 33, and then 37.

Now list me all your rounds you complete and utter noob. Because even with 10x more experience than me, you will never be as good.

And once again.. irony in you calling me a douche.. Asshole, maybe.. I could see that, I don't put up with bull as much as I did years ago.
Because your rank and score have got to your head, it's natural for people that suck balls in all games to gloat and act like a douche in one that they can win, I say win when really I mean rank high.

That is not winning to me, that is scorequeening and being a llama.

I think I understand why you are so mad.

Is it because you tried to kill me 2 times last night in my sleep, and the 2nd time you went back with your tail wrapped between your legs?

_____

Sat 6th Nov, year 1. Afternoon Me vs LuckySports [X]
Battle Report - Me vs LuckySports [X]
[close] 31,163,246 allied Hippy attacked, distracting 20,254,630 hostile staff.
[close] 1,500,000 allied Striker attacked, killing 247,038 hostile staff.
[close] 826,469 hostile Harrier attacked, killing 1,059,089 allied staff.
[close] 4,902,826 allied Yob attacked, disabling 995,370 hostile staff.
[close] 1,426,294 hostile Ranger attacked, killing 1,401,111 allied staff.
[close] 498,982 allied Apache Longbow attacked, killing 1,380,953 hostile staff.
[close] 329,698 allied White Wizard zapped 73,154 hostile staff.
[close] 171,703 allied Heavy Weapons attacked, killing 146,774 hostile staff.
[close] 46,523 allied Officer attacked, killing 16,646 hostile staff.

Distracted: 20,254,630 [£59,277,800,000] enemies distracted.
Disabled: 995,370 [£59,722,200,000] enemies disabled.
Died: 1,864,565 [£123,412,923,000] enemies dead. 2,460,200 [£76,113,270,200] friendlies dead.

You gained 227,796 effectiveness.
You gained 50.09 fame.
You gained 42.89 honour.
You will soon be receiving £14,679,826,800 insurance.

____

It's cool, you're better of coming with half your alliance next time - that way I might not get to fire.

I'm not even going to reply to whatever you say next, you have had your chances to say something honest and smart, but you have come up with nothing but bollox.
 
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Steve_God

Official Helper
Joined
Dec 15, 2007
Messages
1,085
Location
Cheshire, England
Zaheen, you forget that many of us have been around for far too long...

Azzer did implemented a lot of changes due to you, but normally to stop you from abusing the system because you were normally the one abused it :p
 

Twigley

Hydroponics Developer
Joined
Dec 14, 2007
Messages
2,694
Location
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instead spend an inhuman amount of time online and no life it like you do? ;o

It's fine to be at your pc all day and night playing a text based game but if you play for 30 seconds from your phone while you are out of the house then you are a no-life ruining the game for everyone.

Learn the logic, Ogluk. You newbie.
 

Zaheen

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Messages
802
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The Clouds
It's fine to be at your pc all day and night playing a text based game but if you play for 30 seconds from your phone while you are out of the house then you are a no-life ruining the game for everyone.

Learn the logic, Ogluk. You newbie.
You should maybe get your facts right, I don't spend all my life on the game.

I've had Least Life stat for the first time in my Bushtarion career, since 2002. I'm not even going to waste my time explaining to you why, you can think whatever you like.

Just because my activity chart shows insane activity, it doesn't mean it's me. I have created 3 Robotic Zaheen machines in my bedroom, they play for me, run my troops.

Jealous? kthxbye.
 
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Zaheen

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Zaheen, you forget that many of us have been around for far too long...

Azzer did implemented a lot of changes due to you, but normally to stop you from abusing the system because you were normally the one abused it :p
It's not abuse when they are legal.

Badly designed stuff has to be abused for it to be fixed, and I'm glad I abused it, and I'm glad it was fixed.

You can't call me a cheater for abusing the system without breaking rules. It's abuse now it's illegal, it was just stupid back way back when.
 
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