• Those wishing to contribute to the game by making suggestions (both small and large) should read the following before doing so.

    Bushtarion largely runs completely automatically, and has been designed intentionally to be as self-maintaining as possible, with mechanics and balance considered at a completed point.

    Please do not spend large amounts of time coming up with complex suggestions in the hope that they will be read and possibly implemented in the future, unless you just enjoy the discussion, theory-craft, and such.

    The most likely changes will be rules-changes, specific number-tweaks to units, techs, and similar sorts of changes, and only if a large community consensus is reached as "proof" that a change would, overall, be an improvement, and are more likely to be done in batches, occassionally, not as a regular thing.

Multiple Rounds, variety of lengths

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Ok i seen this in other games but how about multiple main rounds which people can play as in if people would like a fast action based round 5 min tick which has shorter rounds (Mini Rounds), if they want the "Default" game then the usual 10 min same length, and for those not active or like long games so check once an hour do either 30 min ticks or hour ticks.

Now i don't know how complicated this would get or how expensive as not in tune with that side of things but at the same time it would give people more option on what sort of game they enjoy more and opens Bushtarion up as a multiple game that supports all sorts of gamers casual or serious.
 
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Elderveld

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Then we need a much bigger playerbase first.
Else the active players will just devide.
 
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I meant in the future as in major long term when the game starts building playerbase not loosing and i was thinking one account can play all three not just pick one like in other games you can have a tab for each game its quite a good way to do it like i said would open up more interest for more potential new players
 

LuckySports

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It could work, but as already pointed out, you need to get a bigger playerbase, so if we start getting a decent sized group back into the game, we can bring this back up and see what people think.
 

Max

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This reminds me of the suggestion a few rounds back of having a permanently running free 5m tick solo PW basically, where it was pure solo for those who wanted something different.

As mentioned before, it would only work when the playerbase becomes bigger... but then if the playerbase was bigger people would be enjoying W1 far more, so it probably wouldn't be necessary then :p
 

Dark_Angel

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I can't see it working, for the reasons aforementioned - We need a much larger playerbase.
 
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willymchilybily

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building on the discussion apart from the previous reasoning. id also worry if a 30minute tick would work for bushtarion. if you consider its currently eta 5 there 5 back 3 ticks attacking. its 6.5 hours per attack. sure easier to drop in and drop out, but it would make it very hard to attack anyone but solos or routes that you are good against, or massing. as they could easily get on and buy up. get defence. plan defence. it would detract to my mind from what makes bushtarion interesting and challenging. the having to think on your feet. and plan your moves. though would stop the need to sleepmode.

IMO I think the idea should skip the longer ticks, it just doesnt seem to be inkeeping with bushtarion and i dont think it would work
 
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Yeah i just threw ideas out there i know it wouldnt be possible with such a small player base i did more think long term idea and yeah i agree 30 min would be extreme but i do like the idea of a normal bush round and maybe somthing like a "speed" round or somthing like that.
 

Dax

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I discussed the difference that 15 minute ticks would make with Ogluk yesterday - It would definitely be an interesting one.
 

Coruba

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As a pure left field idea only maybe a solo world with multiple ID's or maybe even a world with multiple id's and allied.
 

Dax

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I discussed the difference that 15 minute ticks would make with Ogluk yesterday - It would definitely be an interesting one.

How so?

Well, it would make defending a tad easier - But think of the difference in time for an incoming. Even an ETA 3 attack would take (if sent start of tick rather than EOT) 45 minutes to pass the first tick - Now that's nearly as much as a standard attack sent EOT.

I pondered an idea whereby if you send with multipliers, that there is a 'resupply' phase where troops are fed/repaired/re-fuelled/etc, and cannot be sent out for the 1/2 ticks that the modifier adds. It's been done in other games with some success, but combining the 15 minute tick with that idea could add a new element to the game. Whilst the idea could be applied to 10 minute ticks as well, I think giving more response time to this idea would be crucial in it's successful implementation.

You'd literally have to be prepared to defend anybody who sends modified attacks "to the death" for the 1/2 ticks they risk sending a <40% attack for. It's all about weighing up the risks, I guess.

It sure as hell would keep a top alliance active and vaguely interested after taking a decent lead.
 

Alcibiades

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I discussed the difference that 15 minute ticks would make with Ogluk yesterday - It would definitely be an interesting one.

How so?

Well, it would make defending a tad easier - But think of the difference in time for an incoming. Even an ETA 3 attack would take (if sent start of tick rather than EOT) 45 minutes to pass the first tick - Now that's nearly as much as a standard attack sent EOT.

I pondered an idea whereby if you send with multipliers, that there is a 'resupply' phase where troops are fed/repaired/re-fuelled/etc, and cannot be sent out for the 1/2 ticks that the modifier adds. It's been done in other games with some success, but combining the 15 minute tick with that idea could add a new element to the game. Whilst the idea could be applied to 10 minute ticks as well, I think giving more response time to this idea would be crucial in it's successful implementation.

You'd literally have to be prepared to defend anybody who sends modified attacks "to the death" for the 1/2 ticks they risk sending a <40% attack for. It's all about weighing up the risks, I guess.

It sure as hell would keep a top alliance active and vaguely interested after taking a decent lead.

Defending is already plenty easy. I don't see how adding more time to ticks does anything but make attacking considerably more difficult. Frankly with texts and pranks, defending is now as easy as send a text, fake def, recall atf3 etc etc. No one bothers to actually properly defend, and if you give them more time, you'll simply make it more likely people will send out; or get massive amounts of defense there, which makes the attacks equally unattractive.

I fully admit to not understanding what you're talking about when it comes to this phase thing. Are you saying the target can't send out for 1/2 ticks? Or the attacker can't send out? Or the attacker can't recall? I'm confused.

Either way I think it's a poor idea. Forcing people to stay against their will is not something I would consider a positive addition to the game. It's punishing rank 1 for winning, or punishing bribing players who want to hit lowbie targets to get specific units. Why should I be punished for winning, by having you my target and his alliance mates the opportunity to annihilate me if I can't recall? I hope my interpretation is dead wrong, and hope you can clarify your point for me. Tis early, and maybe i'm just reading it all wrong lol. I would say if i'm correct in my assumptions here, that this would make it further unpalatable to attack as the rank 1 ally, and that you're just punishing people for winning.
 

Dax

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Your interpretation is indeed correct (if you attack at +1 for example, you are held at your ID after returning from the attack for 1 tick) - However, bounty does not dissuade anybody but alliances that aren't rank 1 from attacking below 40%. I would rather add a true cost to attacking below 30%, than simply ruling it out altogether, or leaving as it is (when negative honour is genuinely unescapable and nothing close enough to a punishment as a rank 1 player unless you enjoy spending your time dead and low-score).

As a person who is usually lingering in the top two alliances, I would welcome a way that would give me a concrete reason to keep logging in, and watching the overview - It gives me something to do after victory, rather than organising mindless trains on targets in alliances that are ultimately very much demoralised by it after a certain time.

We often talk about bringing back competitiveness, well this is one way of doing it. It's not bulletproof - Your alliance would still be able to defend you as normal, but it adds a way of making late-round pseudo-resistance attacks that can make a dent if planned and timed well. The rank 1 alliance becomes inpenetrable in modern-day Bush once they are 3x rank 2's score. For example, nobody this round has a hope of successfully resisting now unless there is a split. My idea would give a glimmer of hope for a successful resistance.

Again, this is about adding true risk to modifier attacks, not forbidding it, and not keeping it as it is (an extra few minutes of waiting). Think about it from that point of view, rather than it being a 'downside to winning'. This would apply to everyone.

EDIT: Also, I understand that this idea at the playerbase size we have now is downright silly. I know everybody is pushed for targets (though I still haven't hit below 45% all round thus far), but it would definitely be something worth keeping in mind for maybe 3-4 rounds time if successful advertising is implemented.
 
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Alcibiades

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Oh boy. Where to begin.... at the beginning of course! (thank you sound of music!)

Your interpretation is indeed correct (if you attack at +1 for example, you are held at your ID after returning from the attack for 1 tick)

And I assume, for +2 you're held at your place for 2 ticks. This is downright ****ing insane. Let's just start with that for an instance. This would make people in the rank 1 alliance stop attacking ANYONE until they reached 40% and simply make them a target. All you're doing is raising the level at which people will be bashed. I understand what you're saying about making this change for more than just the top rank, but you have to understand that the top ranked players are also important, and while they are not more important than the remainder of the playerbase, it's important to cater to everyone, not just the "downtrodden". There are high ranked solos as well that would suffer from such a thing, in fact solos at all ranks would suffer from this. Anyone who ever attacks at a modded eta would suffer extremely badly. You are GUARANTEEING a way to kill a target. It's just nonsense. It ruins the flow of gameplay.

However, bounty does not dissuade anybody but alliances that aren't rank 1 from attacking below 40%. I would rather add a true cost to attacking below 30%, than simply ruling it out altogether, or leaving as it is (when negative honour is genuinely unescapable and nothing close enough to a punishment as a rank 1 player unless you enjoy spending your time dead and low-score).

While bounty is certainly not the most effective deterrent, your "real cost" you're adding will for sure be a bad thing. As i've stated in other threads, making a guaranteed way to kill people (i.e. a big red win button) is epic quantities of fail and should not ever be implemented. There are definite circumstances where it's utterly unavoidable to hit low targets. I try to avoid it, and i think most people are the same, but just because i want to hit a lower target, doesn't mean I should be punished for it. If you want people to not be able to attack below 40%, then make the minimum attack range 40%. There is no fair deterrent to prevent people from hitting at the minimum range. You will always have, you had it when it was 15%, you have it now at 30%, and you would also have it at 40%.

You make the claim that you would prefer to attach a real cost to an attack below 40% rather than remove it entirely, but that's bollocks. Your suggestion makes it irrelevant as to the possibility, if I knew that my troops would be locked at home after an eta 7 attack for two whole ticks, then I would never ever attack at modded etas. So if you're going to make it fundamentally a suicide mission to attack at modded etas, then you may as well just abandon the option to even attack at that range.

As a person who is usually lingering in the top two alliances, I would welcome a way that would give me a concrete reason to keep logging in, and watching the overview - It gives me something to do after victory, rather than organising mindless trains on targets in alliances that are ultimately very much demoralised by it after a certain time.

You wouldn't have a damn thing to watch in the top ranked alliances, because no one would bother attacking at modded etas. Rank 1 alliance would sit dead in the water, and do NOTHING. Which would prompt either seedwhoring, or mass restarts, neither of which is fun. It is already boring enough at rank 1 that I see no reason to punish those who win, and make it even more crappy to win. You claim that you want to make the game more fun and want a way to make rank 1 want to keep logging in, but this method is just foolish, and will in fact have a counter effect to that which you want. It would make the rank 1 (maybe 2) alliances stagnant, they wouldn't attack at modded etas, instead they would bash more targets with more players on a tick at 40%. You can't fix this problem with "negative" solutions. You have to make it more profitable to attack positively, than to attack negatively. Negative restrictions simply don't work (bounty is proof). Yes, there is a problem with "mindless bashes" but your suggestion would merely increase the problem since people would BASH more at 40%, or stop attacking at all, which is boring.

We often talk about bringing back competitiveness, well this is one way of doing it. It's not bulletproof - Your alliance would still be able to defend you as normal, but it adds a way of making late-round pseudo-resistance attacks that can make a dent if planned and timed well. The rank 1 alliance becomes inpenetrable in modern-day Bush once they are 3x rank 2's score. For example, nobody this round has a hope of successfully resisting now unless there is a split. My idea would give a glimmer of hope for a successful resistance.

Again, more thoughtless nonsense. This is one way of thoroughly ruining the game, and has nothing to do with bringing more competitiveness to the game. You forget that in combination with adrenaline rushes, and this "enforced house arrest" will result in the possibility of nigh on undefendable kills on players who are simply unable to defend themselves. That's ridiculously unfair. I know your gripe is about the rank 1 ally, and while I see where you're coming from, you're still wrong. Punishing rank 1 is never a good way to go. If you want to encourage a resistance type activity, then you need to add positive rewards to the success (or even attempt) of a resistance; not punishments to those who worked hard for, and deserved the win. The reward for rank 1 alliances these days is that you can win in a week, or two, and then you are free to go on about living your life as you see fit. This is, as I see it, the true reward to winning.

Also, I feel that resistance victories should be earned, not given. You're talking about making it so damned easy for a resistance to win. I don't think that's fair either, if you can't beat rank 1 fair and square, then you don't deserve rank 1. You shouldn't be given the rank 1 place, or the ability to kill them easily just because you lost. That's absurd. Illogical Logic at it's finest. (thank you BW).

Again, this is about adding true risk to modifier attacks, not forbidding it, and not keeping it as it is (an extra few minutes of waiting). Think about it from that point of view, rather than it being a 'downside to winning'. This would apply to everyone.

No, this is about making the game easier for everyone but the rank 1 ally. And going out of your way to punish the rank 1 ally for their fairly earned victory. There have to be positive incentives to attack honourably, in combination with negative results from attacking dishonourably. But everytime this discussion comes up, it is worth noting that occasionally it is impossible to attack honourably. Not just for rank 1. Think Puppet players. Is it fair that Puppet players get a bounty for playing how they have to play? Would it be fair to have a puppet player get killed and lose all their hard work towards garnering the troop gathering achievement, just because they could not possibly send out after sending an attack? No. This seems unjustifiably harsh on everyone. There are valid reasons for attacking sub 40%.

i know it would apply to everyone, that's part of the reason why I think you haven't fully thought this through. LOCKING players troops at home and forcing them to be easily killed is just an absurd fantasy you're entertaining. That really is akin to giving everyone a big red win button. It would also totally **** the balance beyond belief of all the routes. Those low eta routes (read: harriers) would absolutely dominate. Bounty gains would be ****ed beyond belief too, people hitting at modded etas, are likely to have huge bounties and if you lock them home, you're just feeding them to bounty hunters. Which is wrong; and unbelievably selfish.

EDIT: Also, I understand that this idea at the playerbase size we have now is downright silly. I know everybody is pushed for targets (though I still haven't hit below 45% all round thus far), but it would definitely be something worth keeping in mind for maybe 3-4 rounds time if successful advertising is implemented.

Only thing you've said worth applauding here so far. It is a truly ridiculous notion for a playerbase this size, and while I suspect it would still be a ridiculously disastrous notion for any size of playerbase, at least you're capable of seeing some of the flaws. Everybody is pushed for targets, as you say, and while having more players would certainly mitigate the issue, it would also increase the number of bounty hunters etc which could capitalize on the bounties of high ranked modded eta attackers. Also an increase in players means a higher percentage of people involved in a resistance, and consequently means a better chance of beating rank 1 in a successful resistance.

As I've stated elsewhere, most of the problems the game is experiencing now is a result of a teeny, tiny active playerbase. You expand the playerbase, many of the issues will fade into the background. I would expand the playerbase first, and then see if it's necessary to alter the game mechanics as drastically as you wish.

This is a terrible idea, and fundamentally misguided, ill thought out and just plain wrong. Positive incentives > punishments.
 
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Alcibiades

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For god's sake DaX, I knew we had had this conversation before. Your idea was terrible then, it's terrible now, for all the same reasons.

There is a way to increase the likelihood of BR's despite contactability remaining.
A function within "Planetarion" and other 'vessel' style games is a period of time (for our example, say a tick) after returning from an attack where your army that partook need to resupply/refuel/rest/etc, where they cannot be sent out on another movement.

This style of 'resupplying phase' would mean that technically, any player can be killed or at least fought regardless of their being online or not (note that defence can still be sent, you just wouldn't be able to send out the returning staff yourself).

The clear downside is there will still be contactability wanted for defence, but it negates it for rushes. It will have a massive effect on combat strategies, and will indefinitely bring swings and roundabouts (and victory to the more persistent, I guess) to the desperately in-need alliance-play.

It's just an idea I had randomly whilst talking with my friend trying to explain that game that has previously played Planetarion and the like.

EDIT: Note that this would also exclude solo players, and defending mobs (in the interests of fairness, I guess - but this is also welcome to suggestion).

If I understand you correctly DaX, it appears you are suggesting that there will be at least one tick after every mob return where your troops cannot be sent out? I sincerely hope not as that is, to paraphrase myself, ****ing retarded.

I am against any sort of ingame mechanic that prevents you from being able to send out and save your units. Even if you are online. If there ever becomes a point where there is a GUARANTEED way to kill someone if you are persistent and clever enough, then that will be the final nail in the coffin of this game. It's like having a big red KILL button.

Making players inevitably killable would ruin this game. Game mechanics that ensure your death are, to be charitable, awful ideas.

It's not ensuring anyone's death. it's ensuring that you have to play more intelligently to avoid it, rather than more actively/contactable(y).

If there's a point where you cannot send out at all, then that's practically speaking ensuring someone's death. Perhaps there is something here that I'm missing but it seems like this idea, in it's current state, is not a great one.

Someone enlighten me.
 

Iamsmart

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I didn't read anything in this thread, but the first thing that needs to be done if this new guy is buying the game is lower the round to 5-8 weeks.
 
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