Cyborg Gardener NERF

[GooDGoodBye]

I say cyborg garderners are fine, they dont need any nerf at all. People just need to learn and accept that loosing land is part of the game and at the round start anyone can loose land.

I say Twigley get over yourself and steal back some more land instead. And really white knights pwn cyborg garderners and any route can get them so stack some honor.

Spoken like a true person who didn't bother to read the thread. Twigley hasn't posted here in AGES..

Man you should read more before you post too!

Twigley's latest post hardly counts, he spoke 2 sentences and added NOTHING to the conversation, my comment still stand strong..

And if you REALLY wanna get into it with me.. Your going to have to pick something better to disagree on..

no, i dont wanna get into you but dont speak crap urself if ur gonna argue with me.

my points are still valid even though this thread is over 1 year old and so are twigleys posts since he is still replying here.

and my POINT still stands that cbs dont need any nerf at all since its just about 1-2days cyborgs gards have that extra advantage. And the route is still VERY vournable to attacks. They have no leth till cws and can hardly stop any flak attacks themselves. All they got is their flak ability and its just 1-2 days they can own like that.

SO please stop this bs about cb gards needin a nerf, THEY DONT.

and sorry if i sound harsh lol but this is how I feel about this cb nerf.

Just get used to them. and apparentices also kills them quite well.

Yeah, your obviously a moron. Read my post on this.. I didn't say they needed nerfed.

Man you are obv more of an moron since you cant understand the content of my posts and start with the name calling. I havent accused you of anything. I have argued about twigleys statement and with the rest of the ppl here saying the cbs need anykind of nerf.

I have quoted you since you started with some bs about twigley has not posted here for ages, obv he had and obv he still think they need nerfing. While I strongly disagree with that.

 

[GooDGoodBye]

Willy, you must realize that nano get's CW first anyways... Also at least they get SDs which are an invaluable asset to any ally during the flak wars. Spec ops are completely useless till ninjas (assuming they're in an alliance and not going puppets).

Just a note to the comment about quick CWs - You could shorten the development time for Shields to offset how much time is added on to the CG dev, simple balance to keep the times exactly the same as they are now.

To those of you that think that delaying them till after hax would make them lose their viability you're mostly wrong. Just because you can counter them now with mass hippies doesn't mean your target is willing to buy mass hippies. If you had the option to either be safe from either one opponent or many you would choose to be safe from many the majority of the time if you are a good player. Anyone that puts thought into this realizes that buying mass hippies is normally useless versus any other flak other than CGs.

I agree pod, even KNOWING they are there isn't going to help a lot, but it will help a little. That doesn't make them any easier to stop. CG still have a huge attacking advantage over most routes, but aren't really useful on defense until CW come out. MASS SD only work if you have effective sweepers.. unless u are using them to sweep..

Lotsa talk.

you ARE flaming, and you AREN'T really reading posts. You accused me of saying CG need nerfed when I clearly said they didn't, I stated they could use a longer tech-time to delay their coming a bit. That's not changing their stats OR making them ANY less useful. READ what is posted before you respond.

Dunno who deleted my other post, but calling him a moron is hardly delete-worthy..

Still im not flaming anyone, im strongly disagreeing.

And ofc its a nerf to the cbs if they get a longer tech time. Since it would make their early game less valuable. Really its you that should be start reading, what ppl here have said why they are op.

 

[GooDGoodBye]

Willy, you must realize that nano get's CW first anyways... Also at least they get SDs which are an invaluable asset to any ally during the flak wars. Spec ops are completely useless till ninjas (assuming they're in an alliance and not going puppets).

Just a note to the comment about quick CWs - You could shorten the development time for Shields to offset how much time is added on to the CG dev, simple balance to keep the times exactly the same as they are now.

To those of you that think that delaying them till after hax would make them lose their viability you're mostly wrong. Just because you can counter them now with mass hippies doesn't mean your target is willing to buy mass hippies. If you had the option to either be safe from either one opponent or many you would choose to be safe from many the majority of the time if you are a good player. Anyone that puts thought into this realizes that buying mass hippies is normally useless versus any other flak other than CGs.

I think its wrong to say that just becuz you can stop them you are not gonna stop them cuz you arent willing to spend money or go the routes that can stop them. Then you are accepting the fact that you will be vournable to cbs attacks. If ppl cant adapt to different strategies without callin for nerfs then you really arent a good player.

 

[Podunk]

Willy, you must realize that nano get's CW first anyways... Also at least they get SDs which are an invaluable asset to any ally during the flak wars. Spec ops are completely useless till ninjas (assuming they're in an alliance and not going puppets).

Just a note to the comment about quick CWs - You could shorten the development time for Shields to offset how much time is added on to the CG dev, simple balance to keep the times exactly the same as they are now.

To those of you that think that delaying them till after hax would make them lose their viability you're mostly wrong. Just because you can counter them now with mass hippies doesn't mean your target is willing to buy mass hippies. If you had the option to either be safe from either one opponent or many you would choose to be safe from many the majority of the time if you are a good player. Anyone that puts thought into this realizes that buying mass hippies is normally useless versus any other flak other than CGs.

I think its wrong to say that just becuz you can stop them you are not gonna stop them cuz you arent willing to spend money or go the routes that can stop them. Then you are accepting the fact that you will be vournable to cbs attacks. If ppl cant adapt to different strategies without callin for nerfs then you really arent a good player.

It's not worth it at the start of the round to buy that many hippies because it leaves you open to other attacks yes. It's not whether or not you're a good player its whether or not you know where to cut your losses. Do I want to lose land to the 10% of people that have CGs or do I want to lose land to the 90% of people that don't. It costs less to rebuy the land than it does to buy the amount of hippies needed to block some of the early CG incs. It's purely a matter of efficiency.

It must be noted that you can't adapt to something you don't know is coming. With PBs you can counter it with your own PBs. CGs are not unit that you can use on defense. Therefore no comparisons can be made between the two. Also you can assume that an attack sent eta 3 is a PB rush.

 

[Zaheen]

Yeah, your obviously a moron.

Stop pls.

CG have another problem now, see other Gripe uppydogeyes:

It must be noted that you can't adapt to something you don't know is coming.

We can adapt to it, only ticks one land loss to realise they are out and start massing Hippies.

 

[Rowan]

flame flame flame troll troll troll

I like how all you're doing is recycling the points of other people who have semi-agreed with you and using that to pretend you know this game inside and out. The people you are arguing with have played far longer and at a much higher tier than you and actually know what they are talking about.

On topic, I can see both sides of what people are saying and don't really have a strong suggestion to please everyone and keep it fair and have the route still viable. I've been fortunate and haven't come up against any CGs in the last two rounds but I've seen a fair few people complaining so I'm going to comment on this going off the knowledge of the route that I do have. Several people have made interesting suggestions, but it's hard to see how these would work overall ingame. They could easily make the route worthless. Like people have said, the issue is not knowing that CGs are coming and so the only way to defend against them (initially at least, until you have an ID list of the CG players which most competent alliances will have) is to over-defend every attack during flak wars and to watch your Unit Stats obsessively.

An increased cost and/or dev time could work out well, and reducing the time and/or cost of Shields so that CW can still be teched reasonably quickly and seems to be the best suggestion I've seen. But like I said, it could negate any usefulness of the route. I agree that it should be powerful at the beginning but not to the point of attacking with impunity.

Like Twigs (I think) said, discussion is quite pointless as nothing will be implemented by the admin, but it's still an interesting topic to read. I'm sure Zaheen or GGB will have something to say about this, so let's hear it ^_^

 

[Zaheen]

flame flame flame troll troll troll

Yes, stop doing what you are doing and listen to what we are saying. This is how you push players out the game by constantly bashing them (games or forums, doesn't matter).

Whatever he has said in this thread, stays in this thread, after this one just let it go. Whether GooDGoodBye has played for 2 rounds or 20 rounds (it doesn't matter), he is still entitled to his opinion, and it should be respected. He is being flamed/trolled by all of you now, and it's not right.

I've started much longer than ALMOST everyone here, and I know things about units that most people don't (yes, some people might know more, I'm not disputing that), just saying.

I'm on the recieving end of this also, I just don't think any of you understand how simple these are to block. I'm not trying to offend anybody who isn't experienced, just saying.

 

[GooDGoodBye]

Willy, you must realize that nano get's CW first anyways... Also at least they get SDs which are an invaluable asset to any ally during the flak wars. Spec ops are completely useless till ninjas (assuming they're in an alliance and not going puppets).

Just a note to the comment about quick CWs - You could shorten the development time for Shields to offset how much time is added on to the CG dev, simple balance to keep the times exactly the same as they are now.

To those of you that think that delaying them till after hax would make them lose their viability you're mostly wrong. Just because you can counter them now with mass hippies doesn't mean your target is willing to buy mass hippies. If you had the option to either be safe from either one opponent or many you would choose to be safe from many the majority of the time if you are a good player. Anyone that puts thought into this realizes that buying mass hippies is normally useless versus any other flak other than CGs.

I think its wrong to say that just becuz you can stop them you are not gonna stop them cuz you arent willing to spend money or go the routes that can stop them. Then you are accepting the fact that you will be vournable to cbs attacks. If ppl cant adapt to different strategies without callin for nerfs then you really arent a good player.

It's not worth it at the start of the round to buy that many hippies because it leaves you open to other attacks yes. It's not whether or not you're a good player its whether or not you know where to cut your losses. Do I want to lose land to the 10% of people that have CGs or do I want to lose land to the 90% of people that don't. It costs less to rebuy the land than it does to buy the amount of hippies needed to block some of the early CG incs. It's purely a matter of efficiency.

It must be noted that you can't adapt to something you don't know is coming. With PBs you can counter it with your own PBs. CGs are not unit that you can use on defense. Therefore no comparisons can be made between the two. Also you can assume that an attack sent eta 3 is a PB rush.

well u can still compare them two units in the sentence that u counter pbs with pbs. Then you should be able to counter cbs with cbs ? if cbs cant be used on defense (we all know this)then they (ofc) can be used on attacks. I mean any player can go cbs and attack with them. its just now that more than a few players have understood the power of cbs. I bet many knew their power but still choose to play something else.

 

[Rowan]

flame flame flame troll troll troll

Yes, stop doing what you are doing and listen to what we are saying. This is how you push players out the game by constantly bashing them an unfair amount of players.

Whether GooDGoodBye has played for 2 rounds or 20 rounds, he is still entitled to his opinion, and it should be respected. He is being flamed/trolled by all of you now, and it's not right.

I'm on the recieving end of this also, I just don't think any of you understand how simple these are to block. I'm not trying to offend anybody who isn't experienced, just saying.

Disagreeing =/= trolling.

Sure, he's entitled to his own opinion but I'm not so sure he has one. It seems to me like he's ad libbing the comments of those who agree with him or at least who make a point in CGs favour. I'm simply pointing out that the people who he is disagreeing with (And not in a healthy, constructive way but by calling them morons and flat out refusing to listen or take anyone else's opinion on board) have played for much longer and at a more competitive level than him.

I'm also not flat-out disagreeing either. I don't think CGs are so ridiculous that they need a nerf. It's easy enough after about a day to tell who has the CGs as long as you're semi-organized. I also don't think any route should be able to steal land with impunity, early-game or non.

I think there are issues that I'd rather have dealt with than CGs, if we had an admin, but I still enjoy reading the discussion because (most) people are raising interesting points.

Also, it's nice to have read a post from you that was directed at me without any name-calling. A pleasant surprise indeed.

EDIT: @GooDGoodBye: CGs. Say it with me. See. Gee. G. It comes after F in the alphabet. It's the first letter of your name. Unless you're using some weird Cyborg Bardners or something.

 

[Zaheen]

well u can still compare them two units in the sentence that u counter pbs with pbs. Then you should be able to counter cbs with cbs ? if cbs cant be used on defense (we all know this)then they (ofc) can be used on attacks. I mean any player can go cbs and attack with them. its just now that more than a few players have understood the power of cbs. I bet many knew their power but still choose to play something else.

You cannot compare an INN unit with a LET unit, LET units "delete stuff" they should cost more. So comparing costs for the CG and costs for something that kills ALL for a couple of ticks, is not really a good comparison - end of the battle, one unit is dead, and one isn't.

Some better INN killers come out later, if they were out too soon then there wouldn't be many flak wars, due to the risk of losing flak so early and people would probably just develop and defend themselves.

We have done enough to convince most people they don't need a nerf. I suggest we just leave them here to realise it for themselves, and then in a few weeks we come back just to say hi, hehe.

 

[GooDGoodBye]

flame flame flame troll troll troll

I like how all you're doing is recycling the points of other people who have semi-agreed with you and using that to pretend you know this game inside and out. The people you are arguing with have played far longer and at a much higher tier than you and actually know what they are talking about.

On topic, I can see both sides of what people are saying and don't really have a strong suggestion to please everyone and keep it fair and have the route still viable. I've been fortunate and haven't come up against any CGs in the last two rounds but I've seen a fair few people complaining so I'm going to comment on this going off the knowledge of the route that I do have. Several people have made interesting suggestions, but it's hard to see how these would work overall ingame. They could easily make the route worthless. Like people have said, the issue is not knowing that CGs are coming and so the only way to defend against them (initially at least, until you have an ID list of the CG players which most competent alliances will have) is to over-defend every attack during flak wars and to watch your Unit Stats obsessively.

An increased cost and/or dev time could work out well, and reducing the time and/or cost of Shields so that CW can still be teched reasonably quickly and seems to be the best suggestion I've seen. But like I said, it could negate any usefulness of the route. I agree that it should be powerful at the beginning but not to the point of attacking with impunity.

Like Twigs (I think) said, discussion is quite pointless as nothing will be implemented by the admin, but it's still an interesting topic to read. I'm sure Zaheen or GGB will have something to say about this, so let's hear it ^_^

I like how you think you know everything about me.

I havent flamed anyone or name callin anoyone. I strongly disagree with nerfing a unit simply cuz more than a few players have understood the powers of them.

 

[Podunk]

Willy, you must realize that nano get's CW first anyways... Also at least they get SDs which are an invaluable asset to any ally during the flak wars. Spec ops are completely useless till ninjas (assuming they're in an alliance and not going puppets).

Just a note to the comment about quick CWs - You could shorten the development time for Shields to offset how much time is added on to the CG dev, simple balance to keep the times exactly the same as they are now.

To those of you that think that delaying them till after hax would make them lose their viability you're mostly wrong. Just because you can counter them now with mass hippies doesn't mean your target is willing to buy mass hippies. If you had the option to either be safe from either one opponent or many you would choose to be safe from many the majority of the time if you are a good player. Anyone that puts thought into this realizes that buying mass hippies is normally useless versus any other flak other than CGs.

I think its wrong to say that just becuz you can stop them you are not gonna stop them cuz you arent willing to spend money or go the routes that can stop them. Then you are accepting the fact that you will be vournable to cbs attacks. If ppl cant adapt to different strategies without callin for nerfs then you really arent a good player.

It's not worth it at the start of the round to buy that many hippies because it leaves you open to other attacks yes. It's not whether or not you're a good player its whether or not you know where to cut your losses. Do I want to lose land to the 10% of people that have CGs or do I want to lose land to the 90% of people that don't. It costs less to rebuy the land than it does to buy the amount of hippies needed to block some of the early CG incs. It's purely a matter of efficiency.

It must be noted that you can't adapt to something you don't know is coming. With PBs you can counter it with your own PBs. CGs are not unit that you can use on defense. Therefore no comparisons can be made between the two. Also you can assume that an attack sent eta 3 is a PB rush.

well u can still compare them two units in the sentence that u counter pbs with pbs. Then you should be able to counter cbs with cbs ? if cbs cant be used on defense (we all know this)then they (ofc) can be used on attacks. I mean any player can go cbs and attack with them. its just now that more than a few players have understood the power of cbs. I bet many knew their power but still choose to play something else.

For clarification when I say counter I mean to nullify the threat. Though in a sense if someone uses CGs on you you can go and use CGs elsewhere to replace the land you lost which is almost a counter . Different routes are good at different things, in my opinion CGs are the best INN flak in the game. They're cheap in price and very effective but by no means need a stat nerf. Just a small timing delay nerf so people have a chance to plan accordingly if they want to.

Also Zaheen, it can be done if you're paying super close attention. But I personally don't have the time to maintain ID lists for possible CG owners. Especially during mass attacks, like this round I'm leading a public alliance, so it's hard to tell which one of the 4 people attacking someone in your alliance has the CGs.

 

[Rowan]

I like how you think you know everything about me.

I havent flamed anyone or name callin anoyone. I strongly disagree with nerfing a unit simply cuz more than a few players have understood the powers of them.

I never claimed to know "everything" about you. Simply putting my point of view out there, just like you have been doing. However, you absolutely have flamed and name called. I saw you call people a moron a couple of times, and you're just arguing without listening to what other people say.

But I'm not going to get into this with you, it'd be like arguing with a tomato.

So let me see if I understand this.. If there was a unit that stopped land loss EVERY TIME and no one could know who had them because they came out before Hacks, then that wouldn't need a nerf either...? Just trying to understand your logic. And like I said, I don't have strong opinions one way or the other, both sides present decent points but I am leaning towards CGs needing to be delayed a little, with a decrease in the time for Shields to compensate and allow CWs to still be rushed to.

And feel free to argue that, I could well be incorrect, but please back up your points if you're going to make them otherwise it's mere conjecture.

 

[LuckySports]

Delaying CGs by 24hrs would in NO WAY negate their usefulness, it would only give people a chance at deciding if they want to put a rather large portion of their defense against CG or use it on one of the other many flak attack they no doubt have. The only reason to argue against this is if you have no idea how to play the route and are only capable of landing in the first day when you can surprise defense.

And Yes.. You are trolling and flaming, you come on here and express your opinion - thats fine.. But you negate your own argument in this sentence..

I strongly disagree with nerfing a unit simply cuz more than a few players have understood the powers of them.

So you disagree with nerfing a unit simple because people have figured out that its a powerful unit? That's a bit asinine. Now if you disagreed with a nerf because the unit is only useful on offense, and leaves the route open to land-loss.. That would be viable.

Or if because later in-game the unit loses a lot of usefulness due to much more powerful flak-killers come out. I could understand that..

Or even if because it sacrafices killing-lethals for flak.. (As PA and Nanos kill SOOOO much more than shields..) I'd see your point

But you disagree because other people have figured out that its essentially an overpowered unit? If you really don't want it nerfed, you might want to figure out which side your arguing for. Basically you just said you disagree because people are abusing it.

 

[Zaheen]

But I'm not going to get into this with you, it'd be like arguing with a tomato.

Arguing with you is like arguing with a cabbage (a rotten one).

Spies have been out a good few hours now, if not longer - if people don't have Hax0r yet then that's their own fault, everybody should be able to see it coming now.

Well, the point I'm making is, a Solo Military player has just blocked 10M CGs with a few WK's, 500K Officers and Basic units. His PNaps were offline and he had no help, if he can do it so can the rest of you.

End of discussion for me.

 

[LuckySports]

I think the 300k WK killing 1.5m/tick + 4m Hippies stopping 3m helped out a bit..

 

[Max]

So Zaheen stopped a CG inc without using Apps or defence... he just used hippies and WKs, both of which are available to every player in the game if they chose to play in the right way?

How interesting.

 

[Podunk]

Zaheen, we're not talking about changing how they work at this stage of the round. We're talking about the first 2-3 days where your only viable option(unless you're sorc route with apprents) is mass hippy. Which is why arguing for a delay on CG dev makes sense, but not a nerf to the unit. And in this case it sounds more or less like the attacker underestimated the power of WKs

Also at this point in the round most folks have enough disposable income to buy hippies if they want.

 

[GooDGoodBye]

Delaying CGs by 24hrs would in NO WAY negate their usefulness, it would only give people a chance at deciding if they want to put a rather large portion of their defense against CG or use it on one of the other many flak attack they no doubt have. The only reason to argue against this is if you have no idea how to play the route and are only capable of landing in the first day when you can surprise defense.

And Yes.. You are trolling and flaming, you come on here and express your opinion - thats fine.. But you negate your own argument in this sentence..

I strongly disagree with nerfing a unit simply cuz more than a few players have understood the powers of them.

So you disagree with nerfing a unit simple because people have figured out that its a powerful unit? That's a bit asinine. Now if you disagreed with a nerf because the unit is only useful on offense, and leaves the route open to land-loss.. That would be viable.

Or if because later in-game the unit loses a lot of usefulness due to much more powerful flak-killers come out. I could understand that..

Or even if because it sacrafices killing-lethals for flak.. (As PA and Nanos kill SOOOO much more than shields..) I'd see your point

But you disagree because other people have figured out that its essentially an overpowered unit? If you really don't want it nerfed, you might want to figure out which side your arguing for. Basically you just said you disagree because people are abusing it.

Again if you would read more and use your brain more.

I have clearly been saying that cb route relies on attacks and has no defence and therefor a nerf to them is not necessary.

 

[GooDGoodBye]

and i wont say more since all u do is troll and flame anyways, very much like the corrupted mods here.