• Those wishing to contribute to the game by making suggestions (both small and large) should read the following before doing so.

    Bushtarion largely runs completely automatically, and has been designed intentionally to be as self-maintaining as possible, with mechanics and balance considered at a completed point.

    Please do not spend large amounts of time coming up with complex suggestions in the hope that they will be read and possibly implemented in the future, unless you just enjoy the discussion, theory-craft, and such.

    The most likely changes will be rules-changes, specific number-tweaks to units, techs, and similar sorts of changes, and only if a large community consensus is reached as "proof" that a change would, overall, be an improvement, and are more likely to be done in batches, occassionally, not as a regular thing.

My HQ Idea

Your_Mum

Weeder
Joined
Apr 19, 2012
Messages
14
Something is up with my browser so posting in installments

Note that numbers are given tentatively since it is a big suggestion and in practice things rarely happen as we might expect. I put this together in only a few hours of boredom so take the exact details with a grain of salt, these numbers could obviously change. Also, certain concepts link together so if something doesn***65533;t make sense at first, it may later.

I probably wouldn***65533;t have bothered posting, but since magpie has taken the reigns, **** might actually happen. I also probably won***65533;t discuss this because I***65533;m too lazy. Nor do I really expect people to read this long post. So why post? Because **** you, that***65533;s why.

ALLIANCE LAND
Firstly I would like to introduce the concept of alliance land. I am aware it has been suggested before, but so far all suggestions regarding the HQ have been inadequate due to the degree of change required to make such suggestions feasible.

Alliance land is just like regular land, except that only HQs can buy it, and only HQs can steal it. Also, HQs cannot steal player land, nor can a player steal alliance land. Just like normal land, the initial cost of land is low, and increases exponentially. The function of alliance land is to provide funds towards the cost of developments (which will be more expensive), the cost of alliance troops and additional player income (discussed later).

The cost of alliance land must be taken into careful consideration. Alliance land will be assumed to have exactly the same production and yield as normal land. The cost however will be exactly one quarter that of normal land. For example, it may cost a player with 500 land 20 billion to buy another 100 land (this is just an example since I don***65533;t know where my spreadsheet to calculate it and am not interested anyway). However, for an alliance with 500 alliance land, it will only cost 5 billion to buy 100 land. Thus whilst it is generally feasible for a player to buy up to 3k land, the alliance can easily buy up to 12k land for the same cost. Also, an alliance can benefit from member donations and so it could easily buy more. However, for the same reasons that buying land over 3k is not feasible, for an alliance with 12k land, players would be better off spending that money on troops. It would actually be interesting to see how an alliance would judge the value of land.

Having the cost one quarter that of normal land means that it can provide significant income to an alliance, and thus there is great incentive to buy and steal land from enemies. Note that this will provide a neat bonus over solo play, so instead of nerfing solos, we have buffed alliances.

A key issue with the suggestion as it is so far is what would happen at round start? Would not all the players donate funds to HQ, effectively quadrupling the land at round start? It is indeed likely, however I dislike the idea of limits or restrictions. Instead this ability to distribute income will be enabled by an alliance development which cannot be developed until 1 week in due to tech times.


FUNDS
Any player can donate to the HQ as usual. However, the HQ will generate its own income from land. As mentioned, it will be possible for the HQ to distribute income to players. This transfer will actually involve the transfer of generated seeds to individuals every tick. It will not be possible for players to gain HQ funds by any means.

This involves splitting a portion of the seeds equally amongst all alliance members. The portion of seeds distributed will be determined by the leader or anyone with the appropriate permission and can have a value of anywhere between 0 and 100%. The limits will actually be increased by alliances techs (discussed later).

For example, assume the alliance has 20 members, is getting 1000 tree, 2000 bush, 4000 flower and 8000 grass every tick and the distribution is set at 50%. 500 tree, 1000 bush, 2000 flower and 4000 grass would be distributed amongst 20 players. Thus each player would get 25 tree, 50 bush, 100 flower and 200 grass each tick.

If we look at it another way, assumed each player has 4k land, and the HQ has 16k (since it is a quarter the price). If the distribution was set at 100% this is like each player have an extra 800 land. This is not excessive, but it is nonetheless very useful and desirable.

NB: You cannot gain seeds from HQ whilst in sleep mode. This is a great incentive to stop people using sleep-mode excessively. Alliance techs may have to be increased in cost to balance extra income.
 

Your_Mum

Weeder
Joined
Apr 19, 2012
Messages
14
DEVELOPMENTS
The next suggestion I would like to make is to change the development system completely. This involves the use of multiple technology trees which can be developed simultaneously. Note that the alliance is not restricted to a single route. Also, every route is completely linear and every development yields a result (i.e. no developments just for the sake of it).

Also, there would be a multiplier just like for normal players. Note that this multiplier only acts on the

The Surveillance Route:
The first tech tree could be considered the ‘Surveillance Route’. The surveillance route would contain all the developments regarding eta view. It has almost identical overall cost to get ETA 5 as current system, as well as exactly the same minimum tech time.

Security Contracts (Contract security guards to patrol surrounding areas.)
Reveal ETA 3
£30,000,000,000
12 hours

Searchlights (Megawatt bulbs with more candlepower than the Sun! OK, maybe not, but they’ll still set you back on your electricity bills)
Reveal ETA 4
£150,000,000,000
30 hours

Radar Surveillance (These massive radar dishes can detect two flies humping a mile away. With these babies installed you’ll never be surprised whilst you sleep by drooling attack dogs)
Reveal ETA 5
£500,000,000,000
34 hours

UAV Technology
Reveal ETA 6
£600,000,000,000
12 hrs

Satellites (The ultimate in modern surveillance technology. It might be expensive, but launching satellites into orbit isn’t cheap)
Reveal ETA 8
£800,000,000,000
72 hours

The Generic Route
This route is basis of alliance farming and is what is to be developed to enable alliance land.

Empty Land (Cheap land, use it as you will)
Allow members to defend HQ
£50,000,000,000
28hrs

Farming Trade (In this modern age the ability of harvesters to pick seeds and gardeners to plant them is such a high tech process, intensive education and training is required)
Buy HQ Gardeners and HQ Harvesters
£100,000,000,000
56hrs

Land Trade (How do you buy land? Set up a land trade!)
Allow HQ to buy land
£120,000,000,000
84 hours

Tractor Factory (the only way to increase efficiency and get ahead in the highly competitive farming industry)
HQ Tractor
£100,000,000,000
14 hrs

Farmland Badassery (Tractors aren’t badass enough for you? Then look no further. HQ Combine Harvesters are as bad as they get)
HQ Combine Harvester.
£110,000,000,000
16 hrs

Engineering
Prerequisite to a number of technologies
£250,000,000,000
16 hrs

Trucks
Allow distribution of seeds to alliance members
£350,000,000,000
12 hrs

This tech tree is fairly cheap so it can be developed collinearly with the surveillance tree, however its minimum tech time up to land trade is 1 week (it may even be worth extending this further). Because it is so cheap, even small alliances can get it ASAP, at the possible compromise of slightly delaying ETA 5. It would be minimum 9.7 days before an alliance can distribute seeds.

The Basic Warfare Route:

Barracks
HQ Private
£75,000,000,000
12 hrs

Office Quarters
HQ Officer
£145,000,000,000
12 hrs

Dog Training Facilities
HQ Attack Dog
£60,000,000,000
6 hrs

Special Forces Training
HQ Special Forces
£260,000,000,000
28 hrs

Humvee Factory (Requires Engineering)
HQ Humvee
£280,000,000,000
32 hrs

Tank Factory (Requires Engineering)
HQ Challenger
£600,000,000,000
30 hrs

The Advanced Warfare Route:
Note that this route would have a development multiplier individual to it. E.g. It would start at around 2-3, and would drop as alliances develop along this route. This is to help slow an alliance using its size to dominate smaller alliances that maybe haven’t developed their defensive technologies yet.

Military Avionics (Requires Engineering)
Fighter Jet
£600,000,000,000
16 hrs

Heavy Armament (Requires Engineering)
AC-130 Gunship
£700,000,000,000
18 hrs

Military Robotics (Requires Engineering)
SWORDS
£440,000,000,000
18 hrs

Rocket Science (Requires Engineering)
Tactical Warhead
£1,000,000,000,000
40 hrs

The Defensive Route:

Explosives
Land Mine
£90,000,000,000
12 hrs

Watchtowers
Sniper Nest
£160,000,000,000
14 hrs

Reinforced Bunkers
Concrete Gun Nest
£320,000,000,000
20 hrs

Laser Tracking (Requires Engineering)
Missile Defence Base
£220,000,000,000
12 hrs
 

Your_Mum

Weeder
Joined
Apr 19, 2012
Messages
14
UNITS
I have thought about every unit and how they fit in the scheme of things. For example, note the new unit type MSL. The missile unit is very expensive and used for clearing flak. It fires before almost everything, targets ALL and does a lot of damage. This is useful for clearing INN and doggie flak (which is actually useful). However, the missile defence base fires beforehand targeting pure MSL, basically the defensive counter to missiles.

Some important points:
Only units from the Basic Military Route can defend allies.
You will not be able to park troops at HQ. You can only defend HQ for 3 ticks like a player.


HQ Gardeners (***65533;10,000)
INN
** / ** / 1000 plants
ETA 2 | 1000 init

HQ Harvester (***65533;10,000)
INN
** / ** / 5000 seeds
ETA 2 | 1000 init

HQ Tractor (***65533;500,000)
INN
** / ****** / 1,000,000 plants
ETA 5 | 1000 init

HQ Combine Harvester (***65533;500,000)
INN
** / ****** / 5,000,000 seeds
ETA 5 | 1000 init

HQ Land Thief (***65533;150,000)
INN
** / ** / 0.001 Land
ETA 5 | 1000 init


HQ Dog (***65533;10,000)
Kills [close]
Targets: ALL
* / * / * / *
ETA 3 | 855 init

HQ Private (***65533;50,000)
Kills [close]
LET / ALL
** / * / ** / *
ETA 4 | 845 init

HQ Officer (***65533;100,000)
Kills [m/c]
LET / ALL
** / * / ** / **
ETA 4 | 740 init

HQ Special Forces (***65533;200,000)
Kills [all]
LET
*** / ** / *** / ***
ETA 3 | 595 init

HQ Humvee (***65533;500,000)
Kills [all]
LET / ALL
* / ****** / ** / *
ETA 4 | 560 init

HQ Tank (***65533;1,000,000)
Kills [all]
LET / ALL
***** / ****** / ****** / ******
ETA 4 | 850 init

Fighter Jet (***65533;2,000,000)
Kills [r/m]
ALL
** / *** / **** / ***
ETA 6 | 20 init

AC-130 Gunship (***65533;2,300,000)
Kills [all]
ALL
*** / ****** / ***** / ******
ETA 7 | 815 init

SWORDS (***65533;80,000)
Kills [all]
ALL / LET
* / ** / *** / **
ETA 5 | 505 init

Tactical Warhead (***65533;100,000,000)
TYPE: MSL (for missile)
Kills [range]
ALL
* / * / ****** / *****
ETA 8 | 10 init

Land Mines (***65533;200,000)
Kills [close]
ALL
* / * / ** / **
Immobile | 30 init

Sniper Nest (***65533;300,000)
Kills [all]
LET
*** / ** / ** / *
Immobile | 25 init

Concrete Gun Nest (***65533;2,800,000)
Kills [all]
ALL / LET
*** / ****** / *** / ***
Immobile | 15 init

Missile Defence Base (***65533;50,000,000)
Kills [all]
MSL
****** / ****** / * / ***
Immobile | 5 init
 

LuckySports

Landscape Designer
Joined
Jul 7, 2008
Messages
1,243
Location
Nonya
I like the overall idea, other than giving the HQ a way to increase income for its players. I don't see any way to abuse it, but anything that helps top allies out-grow smaller allies faster is bad in my opinion.

If you were to implement HQ land, you would have to change the way HQs can attack each other, as it stands, R2 would end up giving all its HQ land to R1, especially since, the HQ, not being a player, Is a lot less likely to be mass-defended. R2 would probably just get the ETA views for the HQ and then stop developing it (like now)

It would be an interesting concept to see once we get a decent sized playerbase though, at least in the lower alliances. I don't see this changing much top 2-3 alliances, other than increasing Rank 1's income.


Also - Removing peoples ability to park troops at the HQ is something I strongly disagree with. I don't like people in my alliances sitting at the HQ all the time, but there are times when it is necessary.
 

Garrett2

Landscape Designer
Joined
Jan 19, 2012
Messages
1,703
this is pretty much my idea just rehashed from a couple years ago. where i had a rock paper scissors tech tree for the HQ. HQ economy and of course improved units. azzer even said he liked the r/p/s approach of it.

at least give credit where credit is due :p - i never expanded further on the idea cuz azzer was not going to do anything with... anything.
 

Dax

Hydroponics Developer
Joined
Apr 22, 2009
Messages
3,126
Location
Northants, UK
Well thought-out ideas, and whilst I like the idea of HQ land, it will not work effectively/fairly until we have a larger playerbase to test it out with.

I like the idea of making AHQ attacking truely worthwhile, and with ideas to make it in essence another useful player (which was always the idea behind AHQ) for the alliance.

My one issue: Being able to develop both defensive and offensive tech trees. I would honestly push for this to be a sub-route choice, so an alliance can characterise themselves a bit further. Smaller alliances may want to go all-out defensive to defend that bit of land supplying their (on-average) smaller players.
Then obviously attacking rank 1's AHQ would be nigh-impossible if they had the funds behind them to develop both routes, and attack at will with no fear of any repurcussion.
 

Elevnos

BANNED
Joined
Apr 15, 2009
Messages
602
Location
England
Another idea, I had whilst reading this, are boosters.

Some examples being something a bit like this:

Fertilizers
£100,000,000,000
Increase seed production by 10% for 24 hours.
72 hour cooldown

Genetically modified crops
£50,000,000,000
Decrease seed loss for 24 hours.
48 hour cooldown

Okay, so the basic idea is that they are small technologies that can increase efficiency for the members of the alliance. For example, the fertilizers would increase how many seeds each acre makes by 10%. or the GM crops tech would reduce the amount of seeds lost after they've been planted, especially for wet weather. Anyway, it's not those techs in particular (so don't criticise prices) but the idea. Of buying small bonuses last for a short amount of time, to increase productivity and efficiency, or other bonuses, etc.
 

Dimitar

Landscape Designer
Joined
Dec 17, 2008
Messages
2,388
Those would only help the landfat people it would seem. Should make the cots related to the income/acre amount instead of having it as a fixed value
 

CFalcon

Official Helper
Joined
Dec 14, 2007
Messages
680
Location
Kent UK
So I start my own alliance, with just me in it, buy HQ land for 1/4 of normal land price, gain the full income seeing as I'm the only one in my alliance, and I don't get any land score inflating my rank.

And some of the HQ units seem a tad under-powered.

Other than that, great suggestion.
 

LuckySports

Landscape Designer
Joined
Jul 7, 2008
Messages
1,243
Location
Nonya
So I start my own alliance, with just me in it, buy HQ land for 1/4 of normal land price, gain the full income seeing as I'm the only one in my alliance, and I don't get any land score inflating my rank.

And some of the HQ units seem a tad under-powered.

Other than that, great suggestion.

Sure, after spending 1,070,000,000,000 on techs and over a week in tech time.. :p


It would probably be wise to put a limiting factor on the seed distribution. Perhaps the alliance has to have at least 1/2 its members before it can distribute seeds among them?
 

Your_Mum

Weeder
Joined
Apr 19, 2012
Messages
14
So I start my own alliance, with just me in it, buy HQ land for 1/4 of normal land price, gain the full income seeing as I'm the only one in my alliance, and I don't get any land score inflating my rank.

And some of the HQ units seem a tad under-powered.

Other than that, great suggestion.
funnily id thought of all these issues people have mentioned, just forgot about them. distribution of seeds would be one 20th each regardless of number of players.

I like the overall idea, other than giving the HQ a way to increase income for its players. I don't see any way to abuse it, but anything that helps top allies out-grow smaller allies faster is bad in my opinion.

If you were to implement HQ land, you would have to change the way HQs can attack each other, as it stands, R2 would end up giving all its HQ land to R1, especially since, the HQ, not being a player, Is a lot less likely to be mass-defended. R2 would probably just get the ETA views for the HQ and then stop developing it (like now)

It would be an interesting concept to see once we get a decent sized playerbase though, at least in the lower alliances. I don't see this changing much top 2-3 alliances, other than increasing Rank 1's income.

I was also thinking how land and tech score would affect an alliances HQ score, and how that might be leveraged to make an score

Alsoa - Removing peoples ability to park troops at the HQ is something I strongly disagree with. I don't like people in my alliances sitting at the HQ all the time, but there are times when it is necessary.
I was thinking of an alliance based AR or h/f stem to prevent repeat attacks/massing smaller alliances etc.
and I completely agree this would require a larger player-base to be more feasible.

this is pretty much my idea just rehashed from a couple years ago. where i had a rock paper scissors tech tree for the HQ. HQ economy and of course improved units. azzer even said he liked the r/p/s approach of it.

at least give credit where credit is due :p - i never expanded further on the idea cuz azzer was not going to do anything with... anything.

I don't know your suggestion. all I'm aware is that people have suggested HQ land before, which I'd also thought about years ago.

I was also thinking about how land and tech score would affect HQ score. An HQ would only be able to attack HQ with HQ score greater that 30%. Which would help stop people with much bigger HQs attacking small alliances. Although I'm not sure hot HQ based limits would turn out. Maybe alliance score could be some weighed average of player score and HQ score and maybe number of players too. Of choose this requires a bit of thinking which I don't have time to do.

PS sorry for any autocorrecta that may have popped up.
 

Dark_Angel

Landscape Designer
Super Moderator
Community Operator
Joined
Jan 11, 2008
Messages
1,979
Location
UK
Looks like a promising idea, I'm in agreement HQs need a massive overhaul - they are being hugely under-utilized as a facility atm. Nice to see people putting effort into large redevelopments, good stuff :)
 

'Tiger'

Landscape Designer
Joined
Apr 27, 2012
Messages
1,285
Location
UK
My one issue: Being able to develop both defensive and offensive tech trees..

Same. Feel as if you have the choice of going either defensive or offensive..not both
 

Max

Garden Designer
Joined
Dec 14, 2007
Messages
1,015
Location
London
I really like the idea, very well developed.

Would need to be tested in a big scale PW to see if it worked, because that way you can easily engineer a large number of alliances.

I would also recommend what has been said earlier - that the idea is crying out for a choice between alliance sub-routes to help distinguish alliances from eachother.

I'd just like clarification on a few points however - how do solos fit into the role of HQ alliances? Would they be able to attack and kill HQ troops - but not steal the land there? And could we consider changing the current rules so that you could bounty hunt troops at the HQ if the alliance as a whole is dishonourable?
 

Your_Mum

Weeder
Joined
Apr 19, 2012
Messages
14
I really like the idea, very well developed.

Would need to be tested in a big scale PW to see if it worked, because that way you can easily engineer a large number of alliances.

I would also recommend what has been said earlier - that the idea is crying out for a choice between alliance sub-routes to help distinguish alliances from eachother.

I'd just like clarification on a few points however - how do solos fit into the role of HQ alliances? Would they be able to attack and kill HQ troops - but not steal the land there? And could we consider changing the current rules so that you could bounty hunt troops at the HQ if the alliance as a whole is dishonourable?

thanks Max.

just a few thoughts. I realise that the idea is far from perfect, I was of the opinion that balancing would be required. its hard to say for sure how well an idea well work.especially oneas big as this.

I find the idea of restricted routes interesting. however generic route and surveillance routes would have to be unrestricted. However I don't think the routes as I've given them would be particularly suited to such a setup. In other words, the routes and units would have to be redone completely if it were to be unrestricted. Not that I'm against this. I've made a suggestion and I welcome alternative ideaa.d.

in regards to the clarification you asked Max, solos would not be able to steal HQ land. HQ land can only be stolen by other alliances using the HQ geo phys thief (our whatever I called it). I would accept bounty hunting and three ability of solos to attack an HQ (although the current 30% limit would remain).

Note i've only presented my idea for others to do as they wish. even if it is only to inspire another HQ idea.

I also didn't mention anything about warring with another alliance. I am indifferent to this. Maybe it could change insurance rates (another idea to consider). I did not consider warring because I don't think it's necessary or particularly useful.
 
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