• Those wishing to contribute to the game by making suggestions (both small and large) should read the following before doing so.

    Bushtarion largely runs completely automatically, and has been designed intentionally to be as self-maintaining as possible, with mechanics and balance considered at a completed point.

    Please do not spend large amounts of time coming up with complex suggestions in the hope that they will be read and possibly implemented in the future, unless you just enjoy the discussion, theory-craft, and such.

    The most likely changes will be rules-changes, specific number-tweaks to units, techs, and similar sorts of changes, and only if a large community consensus is reached as "proof" that a change would, overall, be an improvement, and are more likely to be done in batches, occassionally, not as a regular thing.

Make this an alliance game again !!!!

damfrankie

Pruner
Joined
Dec 14, 2007
Messages
60
Ok, alliances is what makes these kind of games fun; alliances is where you meet people; alliances is where you play together; alliances is where you learn the game; alliances is where you socialize.

Nowadays, playing solo is a sure way for a good finish and playing alliance is almost a sure way to die (except maybe top 3 or 4 alliances). We only have 17 alliances left and next round I would be amzed if we have more than 10 alliances at the end.

I am quite sure this wilol destroy the game; solo play is less fun and newcomers will have a very hard time to learn the ropes.

Therefore I say: make this an alliance game again !!; if you support this, please post it here (I dont know how to make a poll);

If you have suggestions how to make this happen; please post also. ? (I will post my suggestions in a later post)
 

Rosa

Pruner
Joined
Jan 26, 2008
Messages
59
Re: Make this an alliance game again !!!!

I'll agree with your suggestion about making this game more alliance oriented.

Some suggestions I've seen so far are
  • Weaken Psolo - So it's not as attractive to go.
    Make alliances smaller - So you get the "better" players more spread out. And basically you'll have more alliances since there are less players in one.
    Alliance AR - Seems like the best solution right now, ever since l/f was taken out, there has been no limit on how much you can bash an alliance.
 

Gooner-fan-deano

Harvester
Joined
Jan 5, 2008
Messages
135
Re: Make this an alliance game again !!!!

I 2nd Rosa's views
ive played the last 7 round allied and i was going to be less active this round so i tried out P-solo...I hardly ever get attacked and im on the best rank ive ever had

P-solo needs to be weakened, not drastically but so it is slightly easier to attack without having to flak all the time

Alliances should be made up of 8 people private, 10 public, as ive said in another section.

Slightly disagree with alliance AR...I say l/f should make it's return
 

f0xx

Landscape Designer
Joined
Dec 18, 2007
Messages
2,195
Location
Plovdiv/Bulgaria
Re: Make this an alliance game again !!!!

I support this thread. I want to see this game alliance oriented again.
 

atsanjose

Landscape Designer
Super Moderator
Joined
Dec 15, 2007
Messages
1,659
Location
Netherlands, Brabant
Re: Make this an alliance game again !!!!

Rosa said:
Some suggestions I've seen so far are
  • Make alliances smaller - So you get the "better" players more spread out. And basically you'll have more alliances since there are less players in one.
i think that the person suggested that was making a joke :p

Gooner-fan-deano said:
Slightly disagree with alliance AR...I say l/f should make it's return
yup, l/f should be returned only not in his latest form.
you should be able to get a red title but shouldnt be able to get green title. this will prevent those people that are just rushing arround doing nothing but killing.
and with l/f also bounty returning aswell ofc.
 

Gooner-fan-deano

Harvester
Joined
Jan 5, 2008
Messages
135
Re: Make this an alliance game again !!!!

Proper bounty hunting...used to make the game so compelling :D
Im not a big fan of the enemies list... got 40 people on 0%. However other people that I have flakked and have killed some of my flak i get bounty on them :S
 

CFalcon

Official Helper
Joined
Dec 14, 2007
Messages
680
Location
Kent UK
Re: Make this an alliance game again !!!!

These aren't my suggestions, they're suggestions people have made in the two threads about alliance play in bush discussions:

Give real rewards for alliance wars.

Remove injuries when alliances are at war.

Reduce or completely remove injuries overall so that once bashed you can drop out of range and not be repeatedly hit.

Reduce the contribution of land to score.

Make a bigger distinction between alliance and solo play. At the moment they feel very similar.

Go back to a single score system

Introduce seperate tables of solo and alliance rankings.

Alliance AR.

Increase alliance sizes. Decrease also suggested, but I think increase would be better.

DO NOT BRING BACK L/F

Increase the spaces to be won in the portal.

Sort out AR so it is easier to get reasonable help, and much harder to get overwhelming help.

Make AR mod drop sharply when injured troops return. At the moment the combination of 90% AR mod and 80% injuries is ridiculous.

Income protection for alliance players. If you get wiped and lose your harvesters, your alliance can support your income until you get online.

A return to insurance rather than injuries, particularly for alliance players.

----------------

I've put in bold the suggestions I think are the most important.

Now it must be made clear that the way to make alliance play more popular is NOT to make solo play harder. That will not drive people to alliances, it will drive people out of the game. The problem must be tackled by making alliances more playable.

Another point, all the suggestions above are largely to do with solo/top alliance play. Really only the income protection and alliance AR suggestions directly make small alliances more playable. We need more suggestions on how to buff alliances, not more suggestions on how to nerf solos.

And I'll say again: We're talking about middle/lower ranked alliances, where no-one gave a damn about l/f before, and no-one will give a damn about l/f if its brought back.
 

willymchilybily

Landscape Designer
Joined
Dec 14, 2007
Messages
1,418
Location
uk
Re: Make this an alliance game again !!!!

i like the idea.
i dont like the suggested methods of achieving the goal.
i wrote more before i changed this. But couldnt be bothered to proof read it. so hear it is in a nut shell from my perspective

Im allied-other allies are my threat. even a group of 3-6 solos is nothing compared to 15 members of a well run allaince hitting you. with solos too. or even 2 allies hitting you. or even in some cases 3 allaies and solos. all failed ofc. :p

so when we hit allainces. we rape them too.

we hit bellow us. unless at war. we send a wave 6 men deep with 8 men at times. all routes lead back to back. vamps covered middle tick by another route, rpgs covered close by another route. no route has a weakness exposed. attack an allie where we can only just hit the largets member,. alliances dont stand a chance. and i do this because if i dont kill the little allaince bellow me they could come up the ranks and kill me instead. and i need land. and allaince members are more land fat than solo's theres always one that has made him self to fat. and we can all land one target for a few acres and no deaths. also 30% allie meber has more land than most 40 or 50% solos. so even with cap it can be better than hitting a solo

or i could attack a solo. with less land for score. more men. ar and everything else. i cba to work out a mob that can kill them. so i just flack. also my route for a few rounds hasnt been the most agressive in attacking. also now with the rules i attack 40-70% no longer th 30-50% i use to. the etas are to long aswell if you hit low ranked solos.

so yess ofc allies die out. as you can be bashed into nothing and its more beneficical to do this and all your allie gets land. then find 15 different solos and try your luck with them. with unknown ar mods etc etc. also you cant land an allie meber with just flack you can a solo. so yes solos have it nice and easy

but that doesnt mean you should make solo's rubbish. NOOO!make allies better! so in this respect i agree whole heartedly.

but how without ruining solo play is the problem. also smaller allainces ftl. if alliance size reduces im gonna be solo. as i can never be active enough to cover what 3 people use to cover and now you cant. and not to mention less mix of time zones. less men can be sent to defend. and even less people actually online.

we need a new original suggestion that will work.
 

damfrankie

Pruner
Joined
Dec 14, 2007
Messages
60
Re: Make this an alliance game again !!!!

Ok, here are some of my suggestions to improve the attractiveness of alliance play; I am just brainstorming here:

* Make HQ-troops better (especially improve their init)
* Make HQ-developments faster nad cheaper
* Lower the prize of HQ-Troops
* Give all alliance members the possibility to use HQ-Troops for defense (not only Mills off)
* Have alliance acres that grow special crops(Cannabis?) that generate alliance cash
* Give alliance members the possibility to lend each other money, troops, or acres
* Give ar to big players in small alliances

like I said, just some suggestions; haven't thought them out fully
 

Illumination

Head Gardener
Joined
Dec 24, 2007
Messages
442
Re: Make this an alliance game again !!!!

Or just one FOxx :p


I think that many of the people that left the game (myself definitely being one), left when alliance play lost its thrill. I think something needs to be helped a bit to bring back the life in alliancve play, but I cant pretend to know what that is. There are tons of variables.
 

vlad

Harvester
Joined
Apr 15, 2008
Messages
151
Location
UK
Re: Make this an alliance game again !!!!

Blurb
Well, i suppose ill put my piece ofcourse, with abit of selling.

Firstly, we address the situation of Solos, and to be frank, there isn't much that is wrong with them. So what do we do? We do as Azzer started to do, and what i'g pushing for strongly. An Anti-Rape change. And ofcourse ... my anti-rape modification. I know it sounds hard work to code and all that, but it coveres several aspects of Anti-Rape aswell as a small nerf to solo play, without being a big deal. (The change in Anti-Rape units).
Said thread is located under Suggestions. (Click Me)

That should cover the solo side, without much imbalances, the only problem i find, is coding as i don't know anything about it, no idea if it can work, and how hard it can be with Azzer.

So what do we now look at, well ofcourse, that will be alliances, and the way they work.


Current Status
Currently, We have 2 options for alliances.
1)
You have an 18 man alliance, that is private, and the two scores achievable, are those of the standard player.
2)
You take your alliance to a public level, only admiting another 2 players. Same rules apply to both.

Now, the problem already is with this public alliance. It doesn't open much room for new faces, as with public IDs, you will need 2 experienced people, or along those lines to fill these spots to compensate for the fact of going public. This doesn't work like it used to.
Now this isn't something new, ofcourse it isn't. Just with the retirement and removal of the larger leading alliances, and their members, you loose about 5 alliances of the page. And now those alliance are gone, the ones that are left must target other alliances, not so strong in the bonds and cannot handle it. The others were strong together, and beat on eachother round after round, not filling down to much of the fighting, letting the smaller ones do there bit, so this isn't something new.

First Idea
What i do suggest, is something along the lines of larger alliances. Talking 30man alliance. Now, wow you say, thats alot of people, slap one big alliance full of Veterans and their buddies, and you got a win, but hang on a moment, there is a catch.
Bar the fact thats hard to fill, we let only 25spots be chosen and alowed, then the final 5, are random. Yes, random.

Deeper into Idea 1
Random? Thats what i hear you say? Exactly. This is an old age idea, with a twist. There is an option added to the alliance selection called "place me". This will then place you in an alliance in 6 hours. (Thus alotted time frame to stop abuse). This also, alotted person, will fit a certain crieria from the alliance, which i'm afraid, cannot be ammended. This will be based on things like score, average land amount, and percentage of that. (Full details not given, as idea is early stages).
This stops the alliance picking up a new account created by a friend they wanted to join on purpose, as the selection is random. Also, its a way of "trying" to apply some sort of skill level to each alliance.
Now, as smaller alliances go, filling 25 members, may be a bit harder, so you can choose between 10-5 random players that may be alloted to you alliance. This way, filling an alliance may be alot easier.

The general idea of that is new people don't have to try and learn and play as a solo, but like other games .. say planatarion, you get alloted a sector etc (never played them tho), you can get alotted an alliance, which will try and help you raise your potential, as players generally do.

Yes, there is catches on "i don't like him, kick him now", and there isn't a need to worry about ID's, as you are public. Don't forget, being public carries some sort of protection. Like "O my god, he is allied, don't want to attack him" type of protection.

Thats idea one, hard to explain, but its trying to slot the new with the old, to create the new old people :D (love the english).


Second Idea
Small but sexeh. We add an Alliance Development Mod. The difference between this and the normal one, is a small calculation (undisclosed yet, until idea takes up interest) upon current developments and the number of alliances. The point being, it will drop alot faster than the normal development mod. This still allows the rush and usage into Teching with +eta 5 view, but gives the smaller/slower alliances a chance to do this at a better pace, as they tend to only rely on taxes. There will be a drop and increase in some of these developments, the ones that are nessecery, and are not to get the usual aspects, but incresing some of the "better ones" to stop fast development again by the higher alliances.
This is kinda self explanatory, so no need for a deeper probe.

Private Alliances, and Alliances in General.
We do as said before a few times, bring back Unlafullness, without the Upstanding. We give them red, but no greens. This is to every alliance. The standard bounty (yeah, bounty) is alot smaller than it was, but it gives a deterrent to go smaller, and an incentive to resitancs (yeah, those guys). Now, private alliances, i am unsure of, with what to do. 15 was a good number, always has been, and i'm one to go back to 15 for private alliances. But, i am sorry, i have been out of the game a little while, and a good while away from an alliance, so i don't know the need for 18men. But the reason for 15 is to encourage a 30 man alliance, with the "Random Member" mechanics in place, to again, help those unknown new people, get into those "good alliances" and become a "known" member of the community.~



Right, there is quite a few ideas, obviously, i hope them all to be incorporated, as they work together.

Apologies tho, i typed this while getting ready to go out on a saturday, so it might be a little "dodgy".
 

Saints

Harvester
Joined
Dec 14, 2007
Messages
199
Location
USA
Re: Make this an alliance game again !!!!

I AGREE :winner:

-Get rid of solo naps
or-get rid of solos-
-make them alot weaker
- add more fun things for alliances to developt
-new techs
-fix ally unit injury
- make alliances 10priv - 12public
 

vlad

Harvester
Joined
Apr 15, 2008
Messages
151
Location
UK
Re: Make this an alliance game again !!!!

Saints said:
I AGREE :winner:

-Get rid of solo naps
or-get rid of solos-
-make them alot weaker
- add more fun things for alliances to developt
-new techs
-fix ally unit injury
- make alliances 10priv - 12public

10 and 12 doesnt work very well tho, its exactly the same, just creating more alliances but making it harder for any new people getting anywhere. And the way the game works, that will break the game dynamics.
Solos are fine, just a few tweaks here and there is all, but generally, its possibly alliances that need buffing if Anything.
 

Fortune

Harvester
Joined
May 13, 2008
Messages
103
Re: Make this an alliance game again !!!!

I like Vlad's idea that of random people joining an alliance but does this mean that the alliance still has the ability to kick him, etc. Say if an alliance got a noobish player and he wasnt v. good could they just instantly kick? - this could be abused quite badly.

I like the idea of having alliance plants which generate income soley for the alliance but not sure how it would work. The income could be of course used for developments but the idea of having the ability for alliance leader, etc to distribute the funds for reasons such as recovery money or defence money, etc and I believe that this would add a huge apsect to the game. Because atm, tbh allliance troops are pretty useless with a small income from taxes.

I also remember how good it was when you had 2 pages of alliances and when I ran my first allaince it was a real achievement to get to rank 15, etc. Do we have less people playing now than we used to?

I dont believe that solos should be touched at all.

I remember the good days of having 1 score.....

I think that a way of distrubting experienced players amongst alliances is excellent if any good ideas come forward - it stops 1 allaince from simply owning. Maybe people who are in the top alliance 1 round are automatically designated an allaince which they then have to build up as leader, etc.

No AR for allainces! Its a solo thing.

Comments.....
 

Augustus

Head Gardener
Joined
Dec 14, 2007
Messages
283
Location
Bristol, United Kingdom
Re: Make this an alliance game again !!!!

You cant punish solos, atm going solo is the only way to have a casual yet rewarding round. I started the round in an ally and ended up being solo, personally I wouldnt look back. I havent felt the urgency to log on in the mornings expecting to find I was zeroed overnight. Im not reliant on other people to save my ass as I have a decent defence in the form of AR which prevents me getting bashed regularly but is not always there to help. Its no wonder more and more people are leaving the game or going solo. The changes during the last two rounds have made it grueling to be in an alliance and not very rewarding unless your in the top 3. Changing solo wont suddenly make people jump to alliance play, as being in an alliance will still have the same vulnerabilities as it does now. All that would be achieved is more bashing from the top alliances and more people leaving the game out of frustration. IMO the recent changes have been detrimental to less active alliances but beneficial for solos. Personally I would like to see a return to l/f and bounty with the possibility of LET rushes being nerfed somehow, maybe with zero bounty for single unit rushes. Then there would be no need for the constant bashing that is prevailant amongst the current alliances, making Alliance play more fun and not so soul consumingly demoralising.
 

Tapey

Weeder
Joined
Dec 27, 2007
Messages
29
Re: Make this an alliance game again !!!!

I have to agree with augustus. Wen the ally i was in disbanded i didnt log on for a week. Wasnt attacked once. In fact i iv been attacked once in the second half of the round. Wtf? As a result until 2 days ago i loged on every couple days 2 see if im dead. Solo is easy. Ally play isnt as simple. The only prob with ally play is u always feel lyk u r going downhill. I dnt feel that as solo. It is very demoralizing playing in a allience. And the less alliences there r the worse it gets in my opinion. Decreasing ally size wud a simple solution bt probably nt the best one. I think we stil need more promting attacking closer to your own value atleast in allys dnt realy matter with solos. Bt im an idiot so ignore me :)
 

Fortune

Harvester
Joined
May 13, 2008
Messages
103
Re: Make this an alliance game again !!!!

any suggestion is better than nothing
 
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