CDs

[Davs]

<Davs>: CDs currently cost 62k each?
<Davs>: bloody hell
<Davs>: I was expecting something around 40k
<Ogluk>: they'd still be overpriced at 40k
<Davs>: agreed
<Davs>: but I had an idea which would make them acceptable at 40k
<Ogluk>: fire all 3 ticks and target NLT primary? :>
<Davs>: kill, all ticks, target NLT/NLD/ALL, same health and armour stats as now, 3* AD 2* HD, price somewhere around 40k
<Davs>: not sure how it'd work
<Davs>: but doesn't strike me as overpowered
<toby>: price should be higher
<toby>: since they're a robo unit
<Ogluk>: i guess so
<Davs>: fair point
<Ogluk>: can't give robos access to a silly cheap unit
<toby>: 50k would be alright
<Ogluk>: same price range as PA, squishier, but more effective against NLT
<Ogluk>: i like it
<Davs>: sounds good to me
<toby>: would also be great at clearing traps
<Davs>: very true
<Ogluk>: SOs wont be happy
<Ogluk>: xD
<Davs>: SOs aren't happy about robos anyway
<Ogluk>: but as robos screw them over already, not an overpowered issue
<Davs>: exactly
<Ogluk>: and might discourage the hilarity trap/basic massers we get every round
<toby>: idd
<Davs>: that'd be nice
<Davs>: I suppose we should forumise this idea


So in summary:

Target: NLT/NLD/ALL
Range: All
Price: ~50k+
Stats: */*****/**/*** [HP/AP/HD/AD]

And then we just need to agree on a suitable initiative value.

 

[Dax]

Seeing as you've all pounced on my alliance politics idea, I'll paste my two contrasting ideas, also:


Name: Crazed Droid [£49,000]
Unit Type: Robotic
Unit Class: LET
Attack type: Kills [r/m]
Targets: LET/INN
Stats: * / *** / * / ****
ETA: 4
Initiative: 666


The unit will have the same HD value as Steel Walls/Armoured Cars (nearly zilch), and will serve as a secondary AD unit that strips LET/INN alike for TD to clear out.
It's personal armour would resemble Automatons, but obviously a bit tougher due to the facts that it is both a mid-tech unit, and it's value is far higher.

This would bring a whole new method of playing the route into the game, and now gives TD massers something to make them a little more worthwhile than present!

For a little more controversial point to talk about: Making Crazed Droids available before CW, making it an optional tech (akin to the Hippy Van/Biker units in tech placement, the requirement of 'Engineering', and level of importance to route rushing), and cheapening the tech slightly (but keeping around the same amount time to develop):

Crossed Wires 85 £37,500,000,000
:: What happens when you cross the wires? Discover for yourself...
:: Enables Unit 'Crazed Droid'.

And the coup de grace of controversy - A bonus AD % to CG! I personally thought a 100% boost (as they only 30% target INN), but this again is just a controversial point to add more ranging ideas!

 

[Dax]

The other idea is a flipside, a unit that is available to all sub-branches, that targets INN/NLT, rather than LET/INN.

The unit would fire before Terrorists, and the purpose would change from previously being a primarily LET-stripping, and a relatively useful INN-stripping units, to now becoming an INN killer that can work in conjunction with other INN-killers, or to work alone as a CG-killer, and to hunt NLT units such as Droids, traps, Hoolies, but HP-based NLT to a far lesser extent:

Name: Crazed Droid [£49,000]
Unit Type: Robotic
Unit Class: LET
Attack type: Kills [All]
Targets: INN/NLT
Stats: * / *** / * / ****
ETA: 4
Initiative: 235

It's technology I would like to be in the same place as my other idea (so the movement of the tech and making it optional, as well as quicker and cheaper to develop) - But it's HD will not be as low as the previous suggestion, as it serves an entirely different purpose in this form. I would probably place it's HD above the Paratrooper in relation to appeared stats.

 

[Alcibiades]

I like the idea of making CDs a useful unit. I prefer Davs/Toby/Ogluk's implementation to Dax's.

NLT/NLD targetting units are the ones we want. Everything else has plenty that targets them. I don't see why Robotic routes would want a LET/INN or INN/NLT targetting unit at all (as Dax suggests). if you're a robotic route having trouble fighting LETs or INNs, then another unit probably isn't going to help you much.

Although, making Robots much less impervious to prot blocking will, most likely, make them a potentially overpowered unit. However it would focus the rock paper scissors aspect more tightly as it then REQUIRES AD, and can't just send out/prot block. However, while that works for high ranking/well teched/active allies, it's kind of the kiss of death to smaller allies. I remember well many years ago mass guru + newsies blocking many attacks for my allies, often suicidally, but not nearly as suicidally as this would be. While it would be nice to let Robos actually kill *and* land on SOs, it might wreak havoc on the prot system. (Although I guess that's the idea?). As a POM lover, it concerns me to concentrate so much power into a single route that's already obscenely powerful. If CGs had the ability to wipe out Hippies and all other manner of blockers, they would become unstoppable, frankly. Granted the CDs would have to fire after hippies, and so might still not get land, but would make stopping robots obscenely more expensive than it already is.

And DaX: NO MORE UNIQUE UNIT BONUSES. Have you learned nothing from the Fantasy routes?

Overall, I prefer Davs's et al option more than those DaX presented, and would love to see an improvement in the value of CDs but I'm worried about the resulting balance issues. A route that can kill most routes, and already has a supreme cheap flak unit, and is capable of wiping out prots is a decidedly dangerous proposition.

 

[tobapopalos]

I'm not really bothered about the NLD targetting. Pure NLT targetting is what we need, so there is a proper counter to arsonists. At the moment the best you can manage is PB/sorc/shocks and rely on ALL targetting.

 

[Alcibiades]

True. NLT would be preferable over NLD.

 

[Dax]

I did intentionally leave the percentage bit in there as people were like "Alci et al hate the idea of bonuses". I got my little giggle. But otherwise, the idea was for an effective NLT attacker, that could be used to counter the currently widespread use of CG and NLT units. The reason it targets NLT secondarily is purely to keep a fair cap on the killing of NLT (as remember the entire Robo route would have access to these changes, not just a specific sub-route) - And we would therefore see a massive decrease in the use of brilliant units such as Hooligans and Arsonists, which I don't particularly want to see (I like the nice variety of unit usage in recent rounds, rather than boring standard alliance setups).

The first suggestion was just a little idea that I thought would be a nice addition for TD users. Nada more.

 

[tobapopalos]

The reason it targets NLT secondarily is purely to keep a fair cap on the killing of NLT (as remember the entire Robo route would have access to these changes, not just a specific sub-route) - And we would therefore see a massive decrease in the use of brilliant units such as Hooligans and Arsonists, which I don't particularly want to see.

Good point. When making my first post I thought about whether CDs could be added to one branch or another so that you would have to choose them and sacrifice something else, but I'm not sure where it would fit in. Maybe put them in the PA branch and get rid of autos? I'm not a fan of that idea but maybe someone else can think of something.

 

[Franny]

So turn them into All killers. Imo Robo is already heavy enough. Why not turn the Nutters into an arson killing unit giving a lease of life to a very unused branch?

 

[Dax]

Old nutters. Bring em back.

ALL killers do not solve mass NLT route players, they are just added to the pile of already existing ones.

 

[willymchilybily]

The routes expensive anyway. If you balance the unit right, then you would be sacraficing other fire power for the ability to kill some nld/nlt so even if it targeted nld too it wouldnt be the end of the world as they would have to specialise to get the full effect.


also why not just target ALL? means after first tick and killing innocents you can damage both nld/nlt to some degree if you want to play that way. but also you can't hurt them outright if flakked. still gives the option to block robos, using flak. but also allows CD to do that bit more without being overpowered.

Edit : what fran said

 

[tobapopalos]

If they targetted ALL they would overpowered imo (assuming they do enough damage to actually be useful). You could use them against anything. Having pure NLT targetting would make them unique but specialised, so you can't use them for anything else. Much like bikers. The difference being that the thug route has LETs, where the PoM route has none, so by targetting arsons you still risk losing a BR. It would make for an interesting balance.

Personally I don't think making nutters an anti-arson unit is a good idea. Thug vs thug? Would they be LETs? If so, how would that impact on the rest of the route?

I just think the robo route is a much more natural place for an anti-NLT unit.

 

[Dax]

What Toby said.

 

[tobapopalos]

I suppose another option would be doing something with the vamp route to make that useful again. They're already good against thugs on the whole but for most things SAs are better. Having a vamp player in your alliance atm is pretty much a waste of space. With the amount of arson players around these days an anti-NLT vamp would be worth having around.

 

[Max]

I like the idea of an anti-NLT unit, and maybe if a third branch were to be offered for the fantasy route involving an NLT unit this would be even more justified.

I also really like the previous CD unit that was perfect for demolishing tractors (and in recent times, would be great for killing CGs).

So something that could cover both those roles would be smashing.

 

[tobapopalos]

Why on Earth would we want a third fantasy branch? :/

 

[edd]

Because rock paper scissors is for 10 year olds!

 

[Dax]

Because rock paper scissors is for 10 year olds!

This would be like throwing a toaster into rock paper scissors. Abolish Vamps entirely. Dragons always was the only one without incident (except bunker busters - God don't get me started on those).

 

[Max]

(except bunker busters - God don't get me started on those)

DarkSider - leaving route changes in the footsteps he leaves behind...