Azzer is willing to sell

[Alvestein]

Conversation between Nightmare and Azzer today.

Thought everyone should know considering a lot of you still put money into this game and deserve to know that Azzer is definitely 100% not putting anything else into this game be it updates or advertising plans.

Be pretty awesome if someone was up for investing and trying to make this game as good as it was in its prime.

"

Azzer Cronin
Hi Ben,

I'm sorry that Bushtarion's been pretty much altogether abandoned by me. I can't seem to bring myself/motivate myself to work on it again - I think 10 years of it and all the good/bad that comes with it was enough for me, as it stands - and as I'm sure is plain to any player that doesn't live in a land of roses - it has been left as it is, as a "finish gamed", with no marketing/media/advertising/work to slowly dwindle out by itself.

8 hours agoAzzer Cronin
STUPID ENTER KEY...

8 hours agoAzzer Cronin
As a business - as it currently stands - it still wouldn't be sold as anything but as a genuine business, to somebody genuinely interested in investing something serious. At it's height I might have talked about a price of quarter of a million or so, now, I'd think £25,000 (GBP) would be a genuine price to consider, but that could be negotiated depending. That'd be everything - source code from age 2 right up to current set, the domain name, the dedicated server, the playerbase & databases (including an account history going back some years for a potential mailshot of old players etc.) and anything else I have on Bush. I know PayPal accounts CAN'T be transferred, and I'm not entirely sure about the WorldPay account - it's quite possible somebody would need to make their own arrangements there (WorldPay was pretty easy to set up an account with tbh, and there are other credit card processing agents, or it could just become pure PayPal - all the code for handling/communicating with these payment processors is done and easy enough to alter).

It'd have to be bought by somebody willing to actually invest some time into it. If it was just bought and abandoned as I have, I don't think you'd see a return on investment for a few years. But certainly if it was bought by somebody genuinely interested in "making it work" again, it could turn a profit pretty quickly. I won't discuss financials fully with somebody unless they really thought they were in a position they could offer something around that price mark, but I will say that right up to the current day, averaged over the entire 10 year lifespan, Bush has turned over around £30k a year - largely all profit (the server was bought out in advance, and just costs $200 or so USD a month to maintain, the only other costs would be advertising/marketing if you wanted to spend it).

I'm sorry if you were hoping to hear a figure like £500 or something, but if you have any of your own ideas for me to consider, let me know!

- Azzer.

8 hours agoAzzer Cronin
(excuse typos, I've just woke up, and will be going out all day so won't see any replies until tomorrow )
"

 

[Polo]

~£25k is the salary of a junior web developer in London. I would expect a reasonably competent developer to create something much better and more modern than Bushtarion in a year working on it full time.

 

[Benneh]

In current conversation with Azzer, the game is currently generating around £12,000 annually, which isn't that bad considering the game has a tiny playerbase right now.

Azzer has however, said that some day he may return to the game and create a huge to-do list and consider giving Bushtarion an entire revamp, but for now this isn't promising as after ten years he has currently lost interest and the game is currently not a hobby of his, which right now he doesn't want to get back into.

 

[Garrett2]

he's not coming back, and he's having you on. but at least all the people pining for azzer to do something now know what's what and can stop wishing against all odds.

 

[Martin]

and there's the evidence that when you are emotionally attached to something, the value placed on it grossley outweighs the true value.

Not that I wish to curb anyone's enthusiasm but that's an utterly ridiculous valuation...

 

[webvictim]

It's interesting to actually hear something from him on it, good work for getting in contact, Nightmare.

I'd say the game is probably rather overpriced in its current state - that's quite a whack of cash to put down up front and you'd be talking about at least two years to break even at the current player level without work - more if the numbers dwindle further. It would pretty much require that the buyer (or buyers) did some work on the game (new routes, bug fixes etc), generated more interest, did some advertising and got it back off the ground quickly before something comes along to grab people's interest. Still, if anyone has that sort of money kicking around or is willing to take a punt on a loan with the potential of being able to gain themselves a small second income, it's an interesting prospect.

I'm not sure why the fact that the package would contain all the old code from Age 2 forward is relevant in the slightest as a marketing tool. The days of nostalgia are probably largely gone and people too used to the current codebase for it to be any kind of draw for players. It guess it could be relevant if someone wanted to backport and reinstate an old feature.

*strokes chin thoughtfully*

 

[n0c0ntr0l]

£25,000... are you kidding me?

Let us be generous here.


Let us say that there are 5 rounds a year (it's actually 4.8 )

Let us also say that there are 200 players who will buy the p-unit (Generous number of course) This will bring in 200*5*£5 = £5000

Let us also say there are 10 idiots who spend £20 on gamecash a round. 10*5*£20 = £1000

Let us finally say that the game has 20 40BC private worlds a year (this is the most outlandish figure yet.) this would generate £800 a year.

So in total this is a revenue of £6800 with very generous numbers

Lets be real nice and say that server expendature is only £100 a month (not even the 200 that NIghtmare quotes from Azzer). That is -£1200 a year.

Thats a total profit of £5600.

That would be a payback period 4.4 years, assuming the game doesn't continue to die out, which it will.

When you add this onto what Polo said, which is completely true. Nobody in their right mind would buy it.

 

[Elevnos]

I'm sure he's said £25,000 because if he said less, people would try to bargain him down to less, I'm sure he'd go for £20,000 or even as little as £17,500 at a push.
What I do think, is that anyone who is willing to invest, has to put the time and effort into the game and take into account the views of the playerbase. For many, after all, the game is a big part of their lives...

 

[Benneh]

I'm sure he's said £25,000 because if he said less, people would try to bargain him down to less, I'm sure he'd go for £20,000 or even as little as £17,500 at a push.
What I do think, is that anyone who is willing to invest, has to put the time and effort into the game and take into account the views of the playerbase. For many, after all, the game is a big part of their lives...

Azzer would take 5/10K off the asking price (25K), depending on who he is selling to, if they have any coding skills, and what their aim to do with the game is.

I personally don't think the game is worth the 25k, but a reasonable offer could potentially be made, this game NEEDS alot of changes, infact, a new age, funds pumped into advertising etc..

 

[Dimitar]

n0c0 doing math

If anyone is willing to buy the game, they wouldn't just leave it as it is and expect to make profit. The game has enough potential to generate a far larger revenue if the potential new owner puts enough effort/funds into advertising and actually working on the game. If Azzer has, in fact, made £300,000 in 10 years, then the game has brought him ~50k a year in the 'glory days'. I agree with what Polo said, but a potential buyer can still break even from bushtarion in a year or so

 

[Elderveld]

Advertising at the rite place (facebook?) whit a budget of 500/month would only need 100 players to buy the P-unit ONCE to be paid back.
Whit 500 u can get up to 50,000 new players (at 0,01 a click and all sign-up. not that that is gonna happen)

The game has enough potential to still be profitable. Someone just gotta be worth doing it. IF i had the money, and the coding skills, i would do it.

 

[Steve_God]

Wildcard thought... set up a co-operative:
32 players... £500 each... Offer £16,000 to Azzer.

With 32 (or similar number) of people with a vested interest, it wouldn't take much effort from each person within the group to try and come up with creative ideas to get more people in. Plus, it would mean it could be maintained in people's spare time, rather than as a full time job.

 

[Enrico]

Kickstarter anyone? And I assume any asking prize is negotiable. Anyone willing to invest the time and money to upgrade the game would get a basic playerbase, and plenty of groundwork which is done all ready. Now that would be called insubstansial values.

I would guess that even in the current state, with just bugs fixed and basic maintenance, a planned marketing scheme would probably make the investment break even in less than a year. That's not really too bad.

 

[Kingdroid]

The only issue I see with Kickstarter would be the smaller donations, and how you would handle that. With a Kickstarter someone could pretty easily invest the largest share, and then you'd have to set up a system to fairly distribute funds and decide who makes decisions, etc.

 

[n0c0ntr0l]

The only issue I see with Kickstarter would be the smaller donations, and how you would handle that. With a Kickstarter someone could pretty easily invest the largest share, and then you'd have to set up a system to fairly distribute funds and decide who makes decisions, etc.

Same as in any company, Board of Directors.

 

[webvictim]

Lots of people (primarily on IRC) are saying that the 25k price is too much, but it's actually somewhat reasonable if you consider that the game is basically free money for Azzer at the moment. He doesn't *have* to sell or do anything to keep making money as long as people keep playing - if he were to sell, it would need to be worth his while.

I don't think shared ownership of the game would work very well. There'd likely be arguments about who had the final say and making decisions would be quite tricky. Democracy is good to an extent, but if you think about how the UK currently works, it's a mess.

 

[Kingdroid]

The only issue I see with Kickstarter would be the smaller donations, and how you would handle that. With a Kickstarter someone could pretty easily invest the largest share, and then you'd have to set up a system to fairly distribute funds and decide who makes decisions, etc.

Same as in any company, Board of Directors.

Not really so simple, to be honest. I'm referring to Enrico's Kickstarter idea. Suddenly you have disproportionate amounts of investment.

And even with even investments, you'd have like 20+ people all arguing about what to do. Nothing would get done, except maybe advertising.

 

[CFalcon]

Imo, the money is less of an issue than finding someone with both the time, committment and, crucially, the technical know-how to properly manage the game.

I know people here who have the technical capacity, and I know people here who have the time and committment, but I'm not sure I know anyone with all three.

And as webvictim has said, the price isn't that unreasonable considering that Azzer would probs make ~25k from the game in the next 3 years or so anyway. It'll be very much at the end of it's lifespan then, but we were saying the game was dead 2+ years ago, and here we still are.

 

[willymchilybily]

im sure if some one was really keen. they could even ask azzer to buy a share, say x% equal to thier share of the profits. so maybe 10k for 40% based on azzer price. or for alot less . and share profits. in return what they ahve bought is the oppertunity to work on the code and chose to spend money/thier investment. so they spend thier 10k in bettering the game, and paying azzer a fee for a share of any profits.

azzer retain the game rights and the invester gets to code/take the game in the direction he wants. and gets a return on his investment with less/shared risk.

but meh as rightly stated, who can code and has 10k to invest and wouldnt just want to make thier own game? i guess you have a player base here already and all the start up costs are done. but still, i dont see it happening. but good that azzer is open to the idea.

i dont think 25k is unreasonable price. for the potential the game has. but is extortionate if the person doesnt plan to do anything with the game.

 

[Garrett2]

if you only make 5k a year from it (which is probably the current HONEST rate) it would take you 5 years to make back your expenditure IF current spending trends kept true.

you people are delusional.