Honour gains for distracting etc.

[Cheese]

[range] 4,000,000 allied Political Mastermind attacked, distracting 13,088,960 hostile staff.
[range] 1 hostile White Knight attacked, slaying 14 allied staff.

Distracted: 13,088,960 [£193,599,006,000] enemies distracted.
Died: 14 [£30,800] friendlies dead.

You gained 55,757 effectiveness.
You gained 26.22 fame.
You gained 6.71 honour.

And my target got 16honour.

Honestly Azzer something needs doing about honour gains, because 1 unit firing should not give nearly 3 times the honour of somebody blocking nearly 200bil...

 

[WackyJacky]

Attacking 70%. Logged off and someone sent 1 tick behind me. TO get this kind of honour back I'll hafta lose land 4x or defend ally mates vs massive inc 6x


You stole 347 land. [88] tree. [123] bush. [65] flower. [71] grass. [0] uncultivated.
You lost 330 effectiveness.
You gained 4.63 fame.
You lost 60.53 honour.
You earned £890,234 bounty.
You will soon be receiving £7,512,000 insurance.
Your max land grab was reduced in this battle.

 

[tobapopalos]

Attacking 70%. Logged off and someone sent 1 tick behind me. TO get this kind of honour back I'll hafta lose land 4x or defend ally mates vs massive inc 6x


You stole 347 land. [88] tree. [123] bush. [65] flower. [71] grass. [0] uncultivated.
You lost 330 effectiveness.
You gained 4.63 fame.
You lost 60.53 honour.
You earned £890,234 bounty.
You will soon be receiving £7,512,000 insurance.
Your max land grab was reduced in this battle.

Or just maybe you could attack honourably.

 

[Davs]

tbh Wacky, joint attack = dishonourable.
It may not have been intentional on your part, but take it out on the guy who sent with you, not the mechanics.

 

[TaO]

Distracted: 107,238,241 [£268,785,279,800] friendlies distracted. 447,779,706 [£7,500,430,879,000] enemies distracted.
Died: 2,858,958 [£140,414,821,000] friendlies dead.
Bribed: 579,096 [£23,340,616,000] friendlies bribed.
Converted: 40,182 [£1,681,371,000] friendlies converted.

You gained 2,187,176 effectiveness.
You gained 49.59 fame.
You gained 33.79 honour.
You will soon be receiving £27,736,735,200 insurance.


That was me against 4 hostiles...

 

[timtadams]

OH MY GOSH, WTF

Im attacking at 80%
I am a pom
I am attacking by myself

[range] 9,000,000 allied Political Mastermind attacked, distracting 4,311,967 hostile staff.
[range] 10,000,000 allied Hippy Van attacked, distracting 3,813,674 hostile staff.
[range] 3,000,000 allied Loudspeaker Protestor shouted in the ears of and distracted 649,833 hostile staff.

Distracted: 8,775,474 [£263,053,883,300] enemies distracted.

You gained 37,880 effectiveness.
You gained 26.63 fame.
You lost 49.88 honour.

WTF seriously
i get 200b worth of troops killed and distract 2.2 trillion worth of troops gain 40 honour
now i distract 260b and lose 50 honour

AND BECAUSE I DONT KILL I LOSE THE SAME HONOUR EVERY TICK, THUS POMS LOSE WAY MORE HONOUR THAN ANYONE ELSE WHILE ATTACKING

And so i suggest that honour losses for distracting are less than that for killing (as has already been suggested). I also suggest that a person can also gain more honour for doing damage while defending, rather than form just taking it (not 100% sure how it works, but if you do lots of damage defending (distracting/killing) then you should get more honour

I probably would have reached this conclusion earlier, but i have been too inactive to send many attacks this round.

 

[Twigley]

You've either hit them recently before or there was someone a tick behind.
No different to any other route.
Wtf you complaining at, pom is the easiest route to farm H/F and if you cannot do it, don't blame the route, blame your skills and knowledge of the game.

 

[willymchilybily]

things to remeber when farming H/F as a pom

• the more of your total man power you send the better the gains,
  
  
• attacking over 70% is a must. but why not hit some one larger than you for even better returns
  
  
• taking losses reduces the games view of your 'success' so why not hit targets where you wont take hardly any losses
  
  
• rangers and strikers without p-unit have few/no units that directly target you as an nld.(aka dont send innocents you dont have to land every target if just farming honour) and you will seem very successful
  
  
• dont repeat attack, check the enemy spie as far back as at least 144 ticks for your name.
  
  
• if a target has bounty(above base) you can not claim bounty as a pom (without p-unit) but can gain even better h/f returns from 'dishonourable' targets
  
  
• finally who cares if a pom is honourable or not. bounty returns on them are gash, and you have no need for lethal flak unless u get a p-unit, further more your poms and other units target inn,
  directly, and fire before the white knights.

edit: reworded point 6 to clarify what i meant

 

[timtadams]

You've either hit them recently before or there was someone a tick behind.
No different to any other route.

Total land stolen: 695
I havnt exactly attacked many people

Anyway i turns out i have attacked him before, i sent a few million too few gardeners and realised that after i had attacked at ranged, so i recalled and resent with some more.

So you make a valid point about sending twice. HOWEVER, if i was a lethal, i would have killed a lot of units first tick and would not have had to distract those units every single tick, so i would not have lost as much honour the following ticks (or am i wrong? please correct me if so)

Also, i did no damage (in fact i took a bit), and stole no land the first time, thus when i resent it may as well have been my first attack, so i guess i am pointing out a flaw: that someone who sends an attack and does no damage or steals no land (ie only suffers loses) loses honour on a second attempt. The whole point of L/F is to reduce repeat attacking, but the motive for this is to reduce people losing land/getting zeroed.

So if i send some non-lethals to an SA to try and see how many SAs, assassins, ninjas they have, and then i find out they have few enough for me to get through, then if i try and send a proper attack, i will lose honour, simply because i was trying to gain intel.

So i think that the amount of honour you lose on a repeat attack should be proportional to the kill damage you have done and the land you have stolen (as percentages of valuation)

I would like to point out that the only advantage of having good honour is getting white knights and wizards (unless you want a profile award). Now i will point out that if a pom get these they are the only lethals they have. therefore a robo (for example) sends his army at you. The few you dont distract target your white knights and they are all dead.
And this happens: since i built some up i have been attacked three days in a row, just to kill them (and not all by the same person)
This is not a gripe (did that elsewhere ), just making a point

Wtf you complaining at, pom is the easiest route to farm H/F and if you cannot do it, don't blame the route, blame your skills and knowledge of the game.

And i presume that to gain L/F i have to just repeat attack people at 100% or above? cause im not going to go around asking people to attack me.
therefore i have to waste time sending my troops to attack people just to gain L/F rather than land. Sorry to break this to you, but some of us people arent online 12 hours a day to attack for both honour and land

Or is there another way? please share your vast knowledge of the game, so noobs like me have a chance

[edit] Thanks for the response Willy.
Very good points and a couple i didnt know:
-if a target has bounty you can not claim bounty(above base) but can gain even better h/f returns
-the more of your total man power you send the better the gains

 

[tobapopalos]

Plenty of PoMs farm effectiveness and H/F by sending eta 4 without geos. If it was changed so that non-landing attacks didn't count as repeat attacks, they could just farm the same player over and over.

I think it works fine the way it is. You get less H/F when attacking but you get the same H/F every tick. As you say, LET routes get more on the first tick but usually the target is dead by the second so you get less. Also, LET routes tend to lose far more troops on attacks. PoMs are practically invincible apart from against a few particular units.

White knights and wizards are pretty awesome benefits of playing honourably (although personally I play honourably for the shiny titles). They might well be your only LETs but they make you even harder to flak, and people who attack just to kill white knights are clearly window lickers, since they're worth precisely **** all. And they're free. And even if they get killed they come back again.

And you can hit at 70% for honour and land. PoMs are rather good at it.

 

[Terrakan]

but that aside landing on a taget will net you a large loss any way if below 70% so would still be hard to make that back.

I hate to prove you wrong willy but I have positive h/f and I have been hitting between 40 - 70%, I been hitting the guys with red titles.
On topic it does seem that something is needed for poms as they can't kill anything so it's harder for them to gain h/f

 

[tobapopalos]

PoMs can get H/F easily. No change is needed.

 

[Alcibiades]

PoMs can get H/F easily. No change is needed.

This.

 

[Cheese]

PoMs can get H/F easily. No change is needed.

This.

Yes agreed but maybe something needs changing so that you don't get huge honour from 1 lethal firing...

 

[Alcibiades]

True, but that's not really a POM related problem, more of a functional issue with H/F in general, which does need to be fixed, i'll agree

 

[LAFiN]

Over the past two or three weeks I've been pretty much inactive, yet I'm still in the top 25 for HF as a POM. I rarely attack or defend, of late, and I still manage to go up the ranks at a pretty good clip due to me constantly being under attack and the fact that most of my troops almost always survive to fire all three ticks. Sure POMs don't get the huge increases, but as has been pointed out by a few people, they don't kill anything, so they can fire on the same troops all three ticks, which in the end evens things out, or possibly makes it easier for POMs to gain more HF.

 

[timtadams]

Tobi makes good points...

So i concede for now that there is nothing wrong with poms, however i have another concern, which i already touched on

And that is: what defines repeat attacking?
If i send a hippy at an SA to see how many SAs they may have, that counts as an attack. Therefore when i send out a proper attack on that ID, it counts as a second attack and I lose honour.
Correct me if im wrong please, but if not, then i believe this a flaw. Then i would suggest that the honour you lose on a repeat attack be proportional to the % of the targets army you damaged on the previous attack

Therefore if i only send one hippy, i do no damage, and i lose no honour for a 'repeat attack'. It may also be the case, that a person may want to see how many SAs, assassins and ninjas the opponent has. Therefore they may send many jeep/shields/hippy vans/small droids, which will take minimal damage. However this means they will do some damage when their units fire. Of course, the damage will be minimal and so they honour they lose on a repeat attack should be minimal.

If you know what i mean

 

[Azzer]

Sending 1 hippy at a target does not get counted for repeat attacking (unless the only units you possess are 1 hippy, then it'll count it as sending 100% of your units which can count as an attack... )

 

[timtadams]

Sending 1 hippy at a target does not get counted for repeat attacking (unless the only units you possess are 1 hippy, then it'll count it as sending 100% of your units which can count as an attack... )

so is there a % cutoff like 1% or something?

 

[Azzer]

so is there a % cutoff like 1% or something?

There sure is!