Bribe/Conversion Insurance Bug

[Alcibiades]

Is this a 'feature' or a bug? Can we please have it fixed since it's bloody well ridiculous. Not to mention with the proliferation of nanobots it's become a real pain in the ass to not get insurance, especially whilst teching. It has been around long enough that either it's deliberate in which case i think that's a fatal mistake, or it's just laziness, or an inability to solve the problem. So which is it?

Is this somehow fixable or just a permanent **** up?

 

[f0xx]

Bribing shouldn't give insurance, conversion on the other hand should, I believe.

 

[DarkSider]

I actually just noticed a BR with PA vs nanobots a few mintues ago and i have to say that branch is looking as a genuine alternative to the overly used PA. They might have a small period of time where their 3 stars armor are a ***** to fight against (not exactly sure how tough are they) but then again PA's are about the same
Before complaining about their conversion i'd want to see them running through all the stages of a round tho, they might be tough early in the round but they're 'rush-able' and petrols/assassins could make some nice money out of them in return.

 

[Alcibiades]

Briging shouldn't give insurance, conversion on the other hand should, I believe.

That i can accept.

I actually just noticed a BR with PA vs nanobots a few mintues ago and i have to say that branch is looking as a genuine alternative to the overly used PA. They might have a small period of time where their 3 stars armor are a ***** to fight against (not exactly sure how tough are they) but then again PA's are about the same
Before complaining about their conversion i'd want to see them running through all the stages of a round tho, they might be tough early in the round but they're 'rush-able' and petrols/assassins could make some nice money out of them in return.

Nanobots are most definitely looking like a valid and good alternative to PA.

I don't understand what you're going for in the majority of your post tho. What does the fact they are killable have to do with the fact that conversion not giving insurance is a bug? Or at best a horribly misguided 'feature' of converting units?

It's irrelevant whether or not you can 'get money from killing them' since it doesn't change the ultimate facts that converting with them does not give insurance; which you well know. It's not just a roundstart thing where conversion not giving insurance is a pain in the ass, it's annoying at all stages of a round; it just happens to be *more* annoying at roundstart when insurance funds might allow you to get to start a new tech for example.

 

[Azzer]

The nature of kills and insurance and conversions is a tricky one, simply due to the nature of the combat engine. I am working on it atm. It will be made clear cut and simple:

Insurance = usual percentage of (££ Value Units Lost - ££ Value Units Gained From Converting).

So if you lose £10000 worth of troops to a convert... and the attacker gain £5000 worth of new units from it... your insurance will be based upon £5000 worth of troop loss (you will get no insurance at all from the other £5000 - since those units "still exist" cost wise).

 

[Alcibiades]

Ah okay. That'll do, it's just frustrating to get no insurance Kind of like the bad old days of the Wild Western Bushtarion where you got no insurance at all

Cheers for the quick response, and nice to hear about a solution \o/

 

[DarkSider]

The nature of kills and insurance and conversions is a tricky one, simply due to the nature of the combat engine. I am working on it atm. It will be made clear cut and simple:

Insurance = usual percentage of (££ Value Units Lost - ££ Value Units Gained From Converting).

So if you lose £10000 worth of troops to a convert... and the attacker gain £5000 worth of new units from it... your insurance will be based upon £5000 worth of troop loss (you will get no insurance at all from the other £5000 - since those units "still exist" cost wise).

Working on it ?

I thought it already works like that ? I can see in my BR's the values indicates that was how it worked .. or it wasn't far from it.

 

[Alcibiades]

Battle Report - Defending
[middle] 16,823 allied Hooligan attacked, disabling 7,921 hostile staff.
[middle] 3,498,224 hostile Nanobot proved resistance was futile to 13,409,739 allied staff.
[raised] 1,186,744 new nanobots were assimilated.

Disabled: 7,921 [£89,556,000] enemies disabled.
Died: 13,409,739 [£70,681,053,800] friendlies dead.
Converted: 1,186,744 [£49,843,248,000] friendlies converted.

You gained 13,597 effectiveness.
You will soon be receiving £4,678,994,950 insurance.

Numbers are so not my strong suit, but this BR seems wrong to me.

Should I not have gotten ~7bill insurance from that, or am i completely doing the math wrong?

 

[tobapopalos]

Not if some of the units you lost were gardeners.

 

[DarkSider]

Battle Report - Defending
[middle] 16,823 allied Hooligan attacked, disabling 7,921 hostile staff.
[middle] 3,498,224 hostile Nanobot proved resistance was futile to 13,409,739 allied staff.
[raised] 1,186,744 new nanobots were assimilated.

Disabled: 7,921 [£89,556,000] enemies disabled.
Died: 13,409,739 [£70,681,053,800] friendlies dead.
Converted: 1,186,744 [£49,843,248,000] friendlies converted.

You gained 13,597 effectiveness.

Numbers are so not my strong suit, but this BR seems wrong to me.

Should I not have gotten ~7bill insurance from that, or am i completely doing the math wrong?
You will soon be receiving £4,678,994,950 insurance.

Basic units give injury.

 

[Alcibiades]

Ah okay that explains it. Injuries, right.

*facepalm* I'm an idiot Thanks for sorting me out

 

[Turnip2k]

I actually just noticed a BR with PA vs nanobots a few mintues ago and i have to say that branch is looking as a genuine alternative to the overly used PA. They might have a small period of time where their 3 stars armor are a ***** to fight against (not exactly sure how tough are they) but then again PA's are about the same
Before complaining about their conversion i'd want to see them running through all the stages of a round tho, they might be tough early in the round but they're 'rush-able' and petrols/assassins could make some nice money out of them in return.

Nanos are very tasty early on, but when everyone is teched, PA's will be a far better option.

TL's are going to munch nanobots horribly, and since TL's now beat CW's in a fair fight quite easily, I think robos are going to have problem hitting thugs without PA's. The target options for robos are going to reduce quite alot this round as a result of the TL AD change.

At this early stage in the round though, if you are online to middle or last tick stuff, you can do horrible damage to most attackers.

PA are still far better overall methinks - and shields got left in the dust this round. Both other options are far better.

 

[f0xx]

Is it just me who thinks that Turnip's post makes no sense?

 

[DarkSider]

He is definately on crack as he contradicted himself a bit .. read his post twice and still didn't get the whole of it

 

[Azzer]

Working on it ?

I thought it already works like that ? I can see in my BR's the values indicates that was how it worked .. or it wasn't far from it.

It was meant to originally but I've received so many people complaining about "broken conversion" over the rounds (so many pokes/mails/IRC messages/threads) that I was led to believe that there must be a bug somewhere, and as I've not been able to find one I'm resorting to re-doing how it works (doing it a different way). If everyone was just wrong, then tough luck for me

 

[DarkSider]

Working on it ?

I thought it already works like that ? I can see in my BR's the values indicates that was how it worked .. or it wasn't far from it.

It was meant to originally but I've received so many people complaining about "broken conversion" over the rounds (so many pokes/mails/IRC messages/threads) that I was led to believe that there must be a bug somewhere, and as I've not been able to find one I'm resorting to re-doing how it works (doing it a different way). If everyone was just wrong, then tough luck for me

I think the "bug" reported is loosing 70 bil worth of troops and 'somehow' getting 5 bil insurance because of conversions .. instead ~25 bil .. and not that the php code is broken The problem if there is any comes from the fact that you give no insurance to conversions which are a very high percentage of the damage taken.
In the OP example 70 bil looses made 50 bil conversions so your system gave 35% on 20 bil only. Maybe you could change the calcs and make it give about half insurance to the converted value ? So instead the ~7 bil insurance + injury he'd get about 16 bil total ? 70 bil damage would give 16 bil insurance and 50 bil conversions so it's still smaller value

 

[Polo]

As I played Robo last round, I hit quite a few Vamp players. It seems to me like there was a bug related to the insurance Robots/Machines/whatever would receive as Vamps don't convert those units.

 

[tobapopalos]

As I played Robo last round, I hit quite a few Vamp players. It seems to me like there was a bug related to the insurance Robots/Machines/whatever would receive as Vamps don't convert those units.

I was trying to get that message across to Azzer all last round and I don't think he got it.

 

[Azzer]

As I played Robo last round, I hit quite a few Vamp players. It seems to me like there was a bug related to the insurance Robots/Machines/whatever would receive as Vamps don't convert those units.

Yeah that is what I'd seen... it was just the way that DarkSider posted it was all working in this thread that made me post otherwise in jest!

From what I'd observed it seems to be confusing the ACTUAL value of troops that finally get converted... with the calculations that happen between the point of killing X units, and the point of turning that in to a killed and actual new converted units value.

(and tob - don't worry - I had seen and understood your bug reports previously on the issue )

 

[Turnip2k]

It makes sense to me? Maybe I should cut down on the crack.