Bush World Cup 2009 - Discussion

[Garrett]

You are setting the rules. That was my understanding. You've had a firmish hand all along until just now.

Completely contradicting the guidelines you set out. 'Country in which you reside' wasn't a technical detail that needed working out. It was the best WC rule to date.

Which just absolutely convinces me that this has the recipie for being one of the bigger disasters of a PW. Get prepared for negative feedback in the world owners thread after this thing gets ticking.

It won't be from me. Won't be playing (anymore)

 

[Dark_Angel]

You are setting the rules. That was my understanding. You've had a firmish hand all along until just now.

Completely contradicting the guidelines you set out. 'Country in which you reside' wasn't a technical detail that needed working out. It was the best WC rule to date.

Which just absolutely convinces me that this has the recipie for being one of the bigger disasters of a PW. Get prepared for negative feedback in the world owners thread after this thing gets ticking.

It won't be from me. Won't be playing (anymore)

You've got two options, as I see it, when considering whether to drop a team of 7-8 players because they havent found 10.

Either find another player who doesnt live in that country, but isnt on the same timezone, to play.

Or

Find a player you know to be the nationality of the country involved but not living there at the moment.

-

Isnt for me to decide the best choice, but its something we have to think about.

-

As for the possibility of the PW being a disaster; I planned the very first PW and, though it had its faults, it was generally a fairly decent success. I'm confident the same can happen this time round, we'll see.

 

[pinpower]

I think if we're even going down the road of having players not currently living in the country of the team then they have to at least be in a TZ say +/- 1 at a push. But i personally think any mixing of the teams takes away from the point of it...

 

[Garrett]

You are the one waffling on your rules not me. I'm not running this thing.

If a country doesn't have enough players to represent and they can't hustle another couple of players....

does that not spell out 'No or Insufficient Country Pride?'

I mean we're already banding several regions together. While several others like Argentina and other South American countries are not even able to get on the planning plate... so why should it automatically be england players and not an offer to say fer and maradona (if maradona still plays) ?

This will be my last post as I'm withdrawing my app for the USA team, but I can't believe how quickly this has turned from

'World Cup - Team Pride'

to

'World Cup - Make space for Euros since most countries cba to have 10 players'


1 nightcover person to not make a difference on a team? all it takes is 1 to prank the rest. everything seemed thoughtful to a point until today.

However, I drop in protest. This is already turning into a big sham before it even ticks. Enjoy your pw.

 

[Dark_Angel]

You're entitled to your opinion Garrett, as ever, however I maintain you're incorrect and this PW will be a success.

I've put nothing in stone here but my own opinion, and outlined my intention to involve others in any decisions that risk undermining the purpose of the PW, whether that be "fun" or "serious".

Fair enough if you want to drop out because of that, though.

 

[Garrett]

i never questioned the success. you absolutely will succeed in getting the profile award for the pw from others paying for it.

all depends on the definition of success and what you are going for...

I'm simply questioning the logic behind the pw rules. It's sad that there are going to be rule changes up to and including the first day.

It seemed like you had a good thing going, but putting every rule up for debate will leave everything UNresolved. At some point you are going to have to make actual rules 'not fluid guidelines'.

You can't please everyone and the direction it's headed now is that you simply will be pleasing yourself. It is this indecision, that is rampant now, behind me dropping because it will be inconsistent as you chase to please everyone.

It should be that the rules are more clearly defined and solidified as time rolls on, not vice versa. I was arguing against the inconsistencies. This pw will need consistency that will not be delivered.

I will not go chasing the broad definition of 'success'. I'm sure in plenty of ways and meanings it will be 'successful'. :roll: I just was hoping for a nice place with consistent rules and gameplay.

 

[Dark_Angel]

I'm trying to find a balance between rigid rules and as much fun as possible, Garrett, something not easy.

-

As for the Award for purchasing the PW, I won't be buying the PW unless I'm picked as a player for England, something I'm dubious about given the number of applicants

 

[Alcibiades]

Yeah I agree thats the best way to go about it but it will also lower the amount of alliances and I cant see it being much of a problem if a few of the English spillover fill the Scottish gaps to try and get as many people involved as possible.

This will very likely happen if Scotland/Wales/Ireland are unable to fill their team. I will attempt to place English players in the Scotland/Wales/Ireland team based on my knowledge of their actual birth place. (For example I know Dez lives in England, but he's from Scotland - Kuda lives in Aus but is from Ireland, and so forth).

Putting Kuda in the irish team wouldnt be right at all.
I can understand if someone is scottish but they now live in london, whack them in the scottish team if they are a player short. But i'd say they have to be within the same timezone regardless of where they were born.

Agreed absolutely with pinpower. Go with +1 or -1 of what the 'team' timezone is supposed to be. Anything further than that begins to risk unbalancing the whole basis of the PW. Some countries just have wider timezone coverage simply by the size of country and that can't be helped. but giving out potential night and day cover 'simply because they can't fill a team' is ludicrous.

The advantage of one guy on nightcover for the sake of filling a team that won't otherwise play seems reasonable to me.

Are you kidding? No wonder your alliance failed so miserably.

Are we even playing the same game?

 

[Dark_Angel]

Look I'm putting time and effort into organising this. It isnt easy. As I've said, nothing is in stone, I have my stance on certain things happening. There'll be disagreements with those views.

What I have said is that I'll listen to everyone, hence why you're now on the Bush World Cup 2009 - Discussion thread.

Where people can discuss pros/cons to rules, and those involved in planning can take things onboard.

Thats happening, thats great.

 

[harriergirl]

umm wow, drama, too much, withdraw me please thanks

 

[BlackWolf]

I wonder why suddenly same thing I said and has ben saying all along isnt laughed and cried against when Garret says it....

 

[Alcibiades]

I wonder why suddenly same thing I said and has ben saying all along isnt laughed and cried against when Garret says it....

maybe people just tune you out BW

 

[Dark_Angel]

umm wow, drama, too much, withdraw me please thanks

Done.

N.b - If anyone else is unable to play, for whatever reason, please say so on the appropriate thread.

 

[Matt]

Personally i believe there should be 2 rules that should be set in stone,

now depending on how closely you want to relate this to how people are selected to play for their country in various sports will depend on my first rule. In sports it dictates that your must originate from the country you are representing or be a citizen of that country.

if you dont want to mirror this rule and are just wanting time zones then the rule would be you must reside in that country at the present time of the round start

Rule Number 1, (Proper World CUp Rule)

You must originate from that country or be living there for a minimum of 2 years (to be classed as a citizen i changed the length of time to be abit lenient)

Rule Number 1 (Bush World Cup Rule)

You must reside in that country at the time of round start

Rule Number 2

Maximun numbers of players in each country is 10.

Personally i would go with the Proper Ruling of World Cup and my reasoning for this is, some people may live in other countrys from where they were originally born, but this dont not mean they should not be allowed to represent there true country.

for example, The premiership has players like, Fabregas, Torres, Ballack, Drogba, Berbatov all residing in England but playing for the home land. Proper World Cup Rules.

/me expects being shot down for my opinion,

 

[Hobbezak]

Personally i would go with the Proper Ruling of World Cup and my reasoning for this is, some people may live in other countrys from where they were originally born, but this dont not mean they should not be allowed to represent there true country.

for example, The premiership has players like, Fabregas, Torres, Ballack, Drogba, Berbatov all residing in England but playing for the home land. Proper World Cup Rules.

/me expects being shot down for my opinion,

Obviously that would be awesome in theory, but it doesn't work for 2 reasons:
1. How are you going to prove that you originate from country A? Going to make people scan their ID-cards?
2. A massive problem would occur with timezones, with countries with many emigrants having round-the-clock cover.

 

[BlackWolf]

This explains it all...

01<DA> You not interested in the world cup PW?
01<BlackWolf> nope
01<DA> oki
01<BlackWolf> I dont think theres enought people and enought interest by Azzer to make it real WC so I see it as waste of time.
01<DA> Why does it have to be official to be fun?
01<DA> And it does have his backing, it just isnt official, yet. If its a success it may be made an official, yearly event
01<BlackWolf> It has to be offical to be WC
01<DA> I've played in a none-official WC in the past
01<DA> was fun
01<BlackWolf> If I would be asked to join PW I might but when I am asked to join WC then I want to join real deal WC
01<BlackWolf> Theres no half WC's theres only real deal everyone puts their all in WC and then theres normal PWs.
01<DA> Then Join PW
01<BlackWolf> No as theres no PW things going on.
01<DA> the "WC" is a pw
01<BlackWolf> Exactly.
01<BlackWolf> But it is marketed as WC
01<BlackWolf> So to me its BS waste of time.
01<DA> it'll be fun, like it or not
01<BlackWolf> I am not against of people having fun.
01<BlackWolf> But for me WC wouldnt be fun
01<BlackWolf> I think its same reason why Git is not joining.
01<DA> meh, up to you
01<BlackWolf> If I join WC I would be online 24/7 and play 110%, give everything I got to it.
01<BlackWolf> I wouldnt enjoy of it a bit, but I would do it for colours of my country.
01<BlackWolf> To show whos the best of the best.
01<BlackWolf> This PW of yours which is called WC I simply cant join cause I dont see it to be WC yet you call it that. Which would put me to situation where I dont want to be, to situation where I am asked cause of its name to give my all yet I am not ready cause I know its not real deal.
01<DA> then just play it as a PW, to have fun
01<BlackWolf> Then name it PW not WC
01<BlackWolf> And I will and will have fun.
01<BlackWolf> You name it WC and you raise expectations way above PW limit.
01<DA> It sounds more fun as WC And I too want it official, but I have to get a none-official WC to be a proven as "doable" if I want to get Azzer to recognise the value of the WC event
01<BlackWolf> Its like saying that football WC is some english football leage match between 2 lousy teams.
01<DA> And with people sitting out, it isnt going to happen
01<BlackWolf> Thats your problem, not mine. I would have called it premiere or something like that. Make sure its more PW and about fun than of competition and that it wont be refined in future as WC but as national PW or something.
01<DA> :/
01<BlackWolf> What you have done now is give it a name of serious event then you and few others come and tell how its only PW and about fun.
01<BlackWolf> Yet when people connect WC to any event it means real deal... your rooney would play hand broken... it would hurt but he would do it... for your country.
01<BlackWolf> Hell not even sure if your english
01<BlackWolf> But you get the point.
01<DA> the PW will always be about fun, I'd rather have fun that have "serious", tbh
01<BlackWolf> Yes but WC is not about fun
01<BlackWolf> It gives whole thing new meaning
01<DA> Well my WorldCup is
01<DA> And I will be trying to get it official
01<DA> but with teams like Finland, having members not playing for such a reason as this, it wont have a chance
01<BlackWolf> Sure what ever... I have my opinion and others seem to share it with me according to their responses. I tried to explain why I wont join and you didnt want to listen so cant help.
01<DA> I have listened, I get what you're saying
01<DA> But it isnt reason enough to sit it out, IMO
01<BlackWolf> Hell yes it is
01<DA> There are many players just as dedicated as you, but who are playing the PW
01<BlackWolf> Why you think I dont even have account on this round? I dont have time for such.
01<BlackWolf> I simply didnt know of Azzer posting to oview when I posted about it.
01<DA> ah
01<BlackWolf> It still doesnt change what I think of this thing. I simply can cba to join something where someone can say later on it was WC even I played for fun and didnt give my best.
01<BlackWolf> cant*
01<BlackWolf> It would be wrong for myself and my country.
01<BlackWolf> If it wouldnt be called WC but something else, I could join for fun... but as long as someone can refer to it later on as WC I simply cant do it.
01<BlackWolf> As if it is WC I must give it all I got.
01<DA> You do know you're drastically reducing your country's chance of winning by not playing?
01<BlackWolf> lmao
01<BlackWolf> You almost dropped me of my chair
01<BlackWolf> I laughed so much I started to cry
01<BlackWolf> I think that first of all I am not that good asset for any country. Also as it is not offical PW as you just few lines ago agreed with I dont even care.
01<DA> oki
01<BlackWolf> offical WC*
01<DA> doesnt matter, though you may consider playing and have a laugh, but nvm
01<BlackWolf> My country has still won that one and only WC there has been
01<BlackWolf> As I said name it something else and I will play.
01<DA> I'm not changing the name of the PW to please you, BW, it is an unofficial PW, that I have organised to involve as many countries as possible, and is thus a World Cup, official or not
01<BlackWolf> You do as you please, not my problem

 

[BlackWolf]

Sorry of another post, but see things as different so dont want to break that c&p from IRC...

This is the problem as I see it... Same time some people like Martin have posted how they wouldnt ever want to join another countrys team and I get told by Twigs and DA how its just funny PW not real WC. Yet obviously based on its name I am not onlyone thinking here that if you name something WC then it really is WC and it means you dont join other teams as its not just some PW it is matter of honour and who is the best of the best.

Then few posts later even DA says openly its not really real WC... Man I get tired to this toilet talk btw... Get better name for it FFS! (that was off topic over all of whole world cup thing).

Basicly I am glad to join some PW to play for fun, I dont mind... but if someone expects me to play in WC and calls it WC to represent colours of Finland then I do it 110% not for fun... I think some others agree that and I think thats main reason why this whole thing is really big failure.

 

[Azzer]

It's a PW where the alliances are based on the countries of the players, rather than pure random dice rolls or on their own social networks.

Players will be playing "as their country/in their countries team", which is similar to sporting events - such as the olympics, or the world cup. Hence it's been called "World Cup" as a snazzy and pretty apt title.

But at the end of the day it's still a PW. And much like the main game itself - it's still a game. If you aren't having fun, then you shouldn't be playing... I wouldn't play any game that I wasn't having fun in!

 

[BlackWolf]

Yes well thats the problem I tried to descripe Azzer.

For majority or well those who watch sports WC means something way above fun and PW... it means whos who and what country is what... "you just cant put" game and fun and WC to same sentence.

Thats the problem here... WC means real competition and for you and for DA and few others it ONLY means some funny happening... for some of us word WC is tied to something very serious and it doesnt always make it fun it makes it hard work, training and giving all to say "we are the best". I dont mean it with bad towards anyone liking this whole PW idea... it sounds fun, but it also doesnt sound like WC... as WC is damns erious business and if such is arranged well you saw how Finnish guys took it last time one was really kept... they went to win and showd this community that even england has lots of matherial well the quality comes from somewhere else.

 

[Dark_Angel]

Well to clarify for you BW, this is a "FOR THE FUN" - "SEMI-SERIOUS" PW, that I've named "Bushtarion World Cup", based on the fact that each team will represent a country.

I've never said the PW will be anything more or less than this, it will a PW with as much emphasis as possible on fun, but something people can still take semi-seriously.