@Azzer - IRC Op abuse of power

[Hobbezak]

Re: @Azzer - IRC Op abuse of power

IRC rules say no IDs and stuff so why is this guy different?

Because he's a freaking sexbomb. The op with enough sexyness to kick this guy, Treedude, has lost his powers, so there's no stopping him! :O

Chaos shall rule the IRC-Roomz now that this guy can ask some random guy for his id during a mini-havocround, unchecked, not punished for his foul and gruesome crime!

 

[TheNamelessWonder]

Re: @Azzer - IRC Op abuse of power

It's havoc ffs, don't be stupid. Who gives a flying **** if your ID gets out in havoc.

 

[BlackWolf]

Re: @Azzer - IRC Op abuse of power

You can make fun of it as much as you want.
I personally think Hobbe did nothing wrong... Yet if these rules are followed like they have been in the past I cant make myself to see why one person is punished from something that other did and did not get punished.

Rules say if you want to express your OWN ID on your name as a tag please do it at the end of your name.
In case you want to reveal or ask or post someone elses ID it is against rules.

I cant find from IRC rules any exceptions for havocs or any other case where rules shall be broken.
There is rule that allows OPs to kick/ban for no reason, but I cant find rule that allows NOT banning/kicking when reason is there.

Like it or not rules are rules, if we have rules then we all must follow those or have some other rule that is making it clear that those rules dont stand in this case.

 

[Alcibiades]

Re: @Azzer - IRC Op abuse of power

Actually we already had this discussion BlackWolf:

There are at least two unwritten rules in #bushtarion.

1: you cannot ask for IDs in the public channel during the majority of the round.* This is not actually a written rule but is probably the single most enforced rule in the channel. (In case you missed the discussion i believe it was the basis of this thread and we came to a pretty 'reasonable' conclusion there.)

2: It is, and has been as long as i've been playing, acceptable for players to have their IDs in their nicknames in the last 24 hours of a round and throughout havoc. Since having the IDs in the names is such a short step from asking someone, that rule is also waived at the same time. I was surprised to learn that you didn't know of this since you've been playing longer than I have. The rule, as far as I understand it, exists so that players can identify their rivals, victims, oppressors etc without having to wait til round end so they can (try) to get some vengeance or whatever.

I'm sorry you didn't know that, but I guess we have another rule to add in the new rulebook right?

Also, in almost all the arguments that people have with OP power and power abuse and interpretation of the rules, Azzer has almost always supported a 'human' and personal interpretation of the rules, I.E. Operators and Mods and Azzer himself have the right to use their personal discretion in every case if it is required. Since almost all these threads end the same way, can we cut to the chase and admit that this is a personal discretion rule, and Azzer feels that it is perfectly fine to have people put their IDs in their nicks for havoc/last 24 hours of the round? once we get to that point I think we'll all be good friends again. Rules are made to be followed certainly, but these ones especially are subject to interpretation from the Staff.

*The exception being the last 24 hours of a round and the Havoc Period.

 

[BlackWolf]

Re: @Azzer - IRC Op abuse of power

You can make all the rules out of your hat as you want Alci.
Rules do state that person can show their OWN ID in their nickname at certain way at certain time of round, but rules do not say that at certain point of round there are rules that differs from normal rules.

I am sorry but rules are rules. OPs are often referring to rule that let them do what ever they want, well I am now referring to rule that DOESNT! exist, and allow them to do anything else but to punish person asking for IDs. (such rule actually doesnt exist yet previous thread showd up how it is used by op's)

I say once gain I have nothing against current OPs and nothing against players of this game. I just do think that rules are rules. As long as such rule exists for one player and as long as there is no rule saying "during havoc IDs can be asked" or so... then OPs must follow those same rules as rest of us and as no rule lets them NOT to punish rule breakers they are forced to act.

I think it is very unfortunate that some people side with OPs who are obviously changing rules for some people or depending of situation and then pushing those for some.

To me rules are rules and as long as such rules exist (dont ask me to react on situations, persons etc. as rules wont say so) and as long as OPs keep relying on rule which allows them to kick/ban who ever they want, when they want. I am forced to push on the situations where OPs DO NOT follow those same rules they bend to their favour at certain times.

 

[Alcibiades]

Re: @Azzer - IRC Op abuse of power

Previously you were angry at us (read Me) for following the rules to the letter, and now you're demanding that we (read Staff) follow the rules to the letter. Make up your mind sir. You know that personal interpretation is allowed and supported by Azzer, why do you persist in arguing? If you want to get him to change his policies, I strongly suggest trying him in private once he has finished his work on Age 5 coding and getting his hardware set up. I have my suspicions that one more complaint of this sort will be given the attention that it truly deserves.

 

[BlackWolf]

Re: @Azzer - IRC Op abuse of power

Actually we already had this discussion BlackWolf:

There are at least two unwritten rules in #bushtarion.

1: you cannot ask for IDs in the public channel during the majority of the round.* This is not actually a written rule but is probably the single most enforced rule in the channel. (In case you missed the discussion i believe it was the basis of this thread and we came to a pretty 'reasonable' conclusion there.)

Rules clearly say you cant post IDs during the round, and latest incident shows how you cant ask IDs during the round. There is no mention of havoc or majority of the round, that stuff you made up yourself! Please dont try to bend rules to your favour as those are rules made by Azzer and unless Azzer has told you so you are to follow those rules. If not then #bushtarion doesnt have any other rules but the rules OPs make up in their mind at that specific moment.

2: It is, and has been as long as i've been playing, acceptable for players to have their IDs in their nicknames in the last 24 hours of a round and throughout havoc. Since having the IDs in the names is such a short step from asking someone, that rule is also waived at the same time. I was surprised to learn that you didn't know of this since you've been playing longer than I have. The rule, as far as I understand it, exists so that players can identify their rivals, victims, oppressors etc without having to wait til round end so they can (try) to get some vengeance or whatever.

I'm sorry you didn't know that, but I guess we have another rule to add in the new rulebook right?

Also, in almost all the arguments that people have with OP power and power abuse and interpretation of the rules, Azzer has almost always supported a 'human' and personal interpretation of the rules, I.E. Operators and Mods and Azzer himself have the right to use their personal discretion in every case if it is required. Since almost all these threads end the same way, can we cut to the chase and admit that this is a personal discretion rule, and Azzer feels that it is perfectly fine to have people put their IDs in their nicks for havoc/last 24 hours of the round? once we get to that point I think we'll all be good friends again. Rules are made to be followed certainly, but these ones especially are subject to interpretation from the Staff.

*The exception being the last 24 hours of a round and the Havoc Period.

If player wants to give out his ID then it is his decison, but being pushed to it by someone else is another thing. As I cant see rule saying at some point of round someone is allowed to as IDs then I cant accept it. If some OP accepts it then he is bending/ breaking rules him/her self by allowing such thing to happen on #bushtarion where others of us are demanded to be following the rules.

Please when you find out how you can decide who is allowed to break rules and who is not (but Azzer) come and tell me too.

 

[BlackWolf]

Re: @Azzer - IRC Op abuse of power

Previously you were angry at us (read Me) for following the rules to the letter, and now you're demanding that we (read Staff) follow the rules to the letter. Make up your mind sir. You know that personal interpretation is allowed and supported by Azzer, why do you persist in arguing? If you want to get him to change his policies, I strongly suggest trying him in private once he has finished his work on Age 5 coding and getting his hardware set up. I have my suspicions that one more complaint of this sort will be given the attention that it truly deserves.

Hell yes I were angry to you! You punished a player who made a joke. Your excuse was that "rules say so"
Now I present you case where rules say so and you people say "it doesnt go so in havoc"

How dumb you people are to see why I am making these threads? You really must be freaking idiots if you dont see what I am referring to with everything I say! If you punish people once by saying one thing and then let another person unpunished even he did same thing then you better have pretty freaking good reason to do so and I have not seen ONE! reason due rules for your favour but excuses!

 

[Alcibiades]

Re: @Azzer - IRC Op abuse of power

I hate to repeat myself but as long as I've been playing you've been allowed to paste/post/ask for IDs during havoc. I think other people would be tempted to agree with me. You are, seemingly, the only one who does not agree. You're only required to follow the rules up until the last day of the round and havoc.

If someone asks you for your ID, you are also allowed to say 'No' so I don't see you're being forced to reveal your ID unless you're particularly susceptible to peer pressure in which case you probably shouldn't be on the internet in the first place No one forces you to reveal your ID or makes you put it in your Nickname ever. So that argument is nixed my friend.

There are exceptions to every rule, this is one of them. You know it, I know it, almost all the players know it. Next you'll be wanting us to kick/ban someone every time they post a number 4 digits or less because it *could* be someone's ID? Is that exactly how much 'to the letter' you want the rules applied? I don't want to have to be a rotten old taskmaster, but if that's how you'd prefer us to run things I'm sure we can adjust...

Please contain your temper when you post; I'm sure we can maintain a civil conversation without degenerating into insults please.

 

[BlackWolf]

Re: @Azzer - IRC Op abuse of power

I hate to repeat myself but as long as I've been playing you've been allowed to paste/post/ask for IDs during havoc. I think other people would be tempted to agree with me. You are, seemingly, the only one who does not agree.

If someone asks you for your ID, you are also allowed to say 'No' so I don't see you're being forced to reveal your ID unless you're particularly susceptible to peer pressure in which case you probably shouldn't be on the internet in the first place No one forces you to reveal your ID or makes you put it in your Nickname ever. So that argument is nixed my friend.

There are exceptions to every rule, this is one of them. You know it, I know it, almost all the players know it. Next you'll be wanting us to kick/ban someone everytime they post a number 4 digits or less because it 'could' be someone's ID? Is that exactly how much 'to the letter' you want the rules applied? I don't want to have to be a rotten old taskmaster, but if that's how you'd prefer us to run things I'm sure we can adjust...

Please contain your temper when you post (reference to your post above).

I didnt know IDs can be posted during havoc. Nothing states it, you are free to draw to such excuse! There is no rule about havoc or certain times you can break the rules. I have not ever cared a smeg about havocs and after round has endd I have stop playing completely, to get my rest while I can.

No one forced that guy WD asked from to reveal his ID, yet WD got kicked. So why is this guy different from earlier situation in same thread? HE IS NOT!

The difference lies in the heads of OPs, yet no rule says they can decide to do or not to do. WD asked ID and got kicked. Hobbezak asked ID and didnt. When you can explain me on what rule you based your arguement please come and say so. Unless you can please dont make this more hard to you!!!

Rules are rules and thats it. All I asked was pologiese and acceptance that OP didnt follow rules, yet that person AGAIN (normal OP behaviour) didnt accept he had made anything wrong. Well Rules say he did, simple as that.

 

[Hobbezak]

Re: @Azzer - IRC Op abuse of power

If you punish people once by saying one thing and then let another person unpunished even he did same thing

This was aimed at Alcibiades, but I assume this addition has to be made to this thread, which should be justification for the ops not kicking me, even though it wasn't even against, during havoc, applicable rules.

«23:13» <Hobbezak> Btw you forgot a rule.
«23:13» <Hobbezak> 3: Hobbezak is above all rules. All shall be done by users and ops to please this walking blond sexgod.

 

[BlackWolf]

Re: @Azzer - IRC Op abuse of power

If you punish people once by saying one thing and then let another person unpunished even he did same thing

This was aimed at Alcibiades, but I assume this addition has to be made to this thread, which should be justification for the ops not kicking me, even though it wasn't even against, during havoc, applicable rules.

«23:13» <Hobbezak> Btw you forgot a rule.
«23:13» <Hobbezak> 3: Hobbezak is above all rules. All shall be done by users and ops to please this walking blond sexgod.

Straight IRC quote of myself:
[12:55am] <BlackWolf> [12:53am] <BlackWolf> Hobbe: No I do not!! I wish you understand that I never wanted you to get kicked or anything like that!! I dont even think you deserved to be kicked. I just think that OPs and their stuff has gone too far. Either rules should say "OPs can do what ever they want or they stick to rules they have.
[12:55am] <BlackWolf> Sorry
[12:55am] <Hobbezak> I know mate.
[12:55am] <BlackWolf> I wish you can forgive me
[12:55am] <BlackWolf> I never intented this to be against you.
[12:55am] <Hobbezak> Yeah I'm just making fun of this.
[12:55am] <BlackWolf>

 

[pinpower]

Re: @Azzer - IRC Op abuse of power

I have not seen rules saying that asking of IDs or posting IDs at havoc is allowed.

Rules are rules, if rules are obeyed at joke case they must be followed at havoc case. If not whole arguement of Alci is just a joke.

Blackwolf (dont take this as offensively as it might come off) You are a mentalist...

Its havok...nobody cares...stop being a fool.

You have just proved once and for all that you are simply arguing for the sake of it and therefore anything you now say on these forums is meaningless...You are not benefiting anyone by arguing in this case as you are arguing both sides of the same argument (as Alci stated)...Yes the forum is for discussion and debate but not your own personal whining outlet.


Ill say again IMO what Alci did was a little heavy handed...BUT you cant moan this much when an OP follows the rules exactly as they are laid out...

x

 

[BlackWolf]

Re: @Azzer - IRC Op abuse of power

I have not seen rules saying that asking of IDs or posting IDs at havoc is allowed.

Rules are rules, if rules are obeyed at joke case they must be followed at havoc case. If not whole arguement of Alci is just a joke.

Ill say again IMO what Alci did was a little heavy handed...BUT you cant moan this much when an OP follows the rules exactly as they are laid out...

How were rules followed out? Rules were not followed out. If Alci at first time did kick for reason (If not then Alci must have been punished by Azzer already, but I have not heard of such) then 2nd case was very clearly break of same rule and as such punishment should have followed.

I still cant find rule or anything from IRC rules that allows OPs NOT to kick when rule is broken. There is only rule that allows them to kick for what ever reason they want, yet in this case there was rule and reason yet nothing was made.

Rules are rules, the day those rules are broken and people are not punished, only proved what kind of system there is going on in #bushtarion for me. I was at that channel first time in weeks and "wooh" I immediatedly spot situation where persons are not treated equally.

What do you think that makes me feel of how trustworthy our OPs are and if I wish to use such channel anymore?

 

[No-Dachi]

Re: @Azzer - IRC Op abuse of power

You have just proved once and for all that you are simply arguing for the sake of it

This is where you are wrong. He's not arguing for the sake of having an argument, he is arguing for the principle. He doesn't care one whit about these incidents on their own - he cares about and thus argues for the principle behind every rule in every rulebook (save China's, perhaps). If the rules can be broken by the authorities whenever they see fit, the rule itself is a joke, and without power. This is why you, in every functional democracy, have rules and exceptions to those rules. And everything is written down for everyone to see.

If person A is penalized for committing an offense, then when person B commits the same offense he must face the same reaction! If there are to be exceptions these must be clearly stated in the rulebook.

And to the trollers and morons(you know who you are):
I know the Bushtarion Community is not a democracy - that Azzer is God and holds all power. But as long as he keeps rulebook with explicit rules (not giving his minions limitless power without restraints), those must be followed.

 

[Twigley]

Re: @Azzer - IRC Op abuse of power

No Dachi wins as usual :nworthy:

 

[harriergirl]

Re: @Azzer - IRC Op abuse of power

No Dachi wins as usual :nworthy:

QFT? :lol:

 

[nopjes]

Re: @Azzer - IRC Op abuse of power

7.1 Channel staff hold the right to kick, ban or warn anyone for reasons they see fit."

if an OP tought you posting you were eating an apple was extremely wrong, and diserved a kick, then he would kick you he would be following the rules.

now if someone asks for an ID, I dont find a kick more than just
if he asks for a ID rethorically, he still might be kicked. as we´ve seen

but dont bring up more bending of the rules to you favor bs pls
lol its pathetic.
he can bend the rules to his favor... he is an OP
second of all he clearly didnt, how is kicking someone for a reason you seem fit and imho should be added to the rules asap to alci´s favor?

now if you don't agree with these rules, then don't hang out in #bushtarion
if you want the rules to be changed, start a thread
don't boher an imho fine OP with following a rule wich in your eyes is a wrong one, pls complain about the rules rather than about alci as he merely implied 7.1. wich makes him:having followed the rules to the letter

and last of all, get the f|_|ck over yourselves, how bad is a kick? it takes less than a second to rejoin

 

[BlackWolf]

Re: @Azzer - IRC Op abuse of power

Have you nopjes even read last posts of this thread?

 

[nopjes]

Re: @Azzer - IRC Op abuse of power

Have you nopjes even read last posts of this thread?

yes, and i agree with you its not the core of this topic.