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Old 28-04-2008, 03:19 PM   #1
CFalcon
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Default Skill?

Oddly enough this isn't a thread about how there's no skill left in the game, or how a certain group have no skill or whatever.

I'm just wondering what skill actually is? You see the word skill used all over the place (mostly people accusing others of having none), but I can't actually pin down what it is.

Activity? No, any idiot can spend hours infront of their computer.
Fast stealing? No, anyone can spam gardeners and get their alliance to cover them.
Holding on to land? No, any muppet can hit mass gurus/traps whatever.
Bounty hunting? No, there's no skill in massing one unit and sending at routes that are weak against yours.
Holding a high rank on low activity? Anyone can make themselves a less attractive target than those around them eg bunkers/mass terrors.
Organising mass attacks? Pfft, any idiot can say "mass id xxxx"
Exploiting a loophole? Just because you stumbled upon a loophole, doesn't make you a skilled player

I don't neccesarily agree with the comebacks in italics, but these are all arguements I've seen before for why these things are not skill.

So what do you all think "skill" is? Or is there no such thing as skill? Just a combination of the things listed above or more? I'm just getting slightly annoyed of people throwing this word around alot, accusing other people of not having any skill and of "just doing [insert italics from above]"
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Old 28-04-2008, 03:31 PM   #2
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Default Re: Skill?

I'm not going to say so much what skill is, but where some of the feelings may come from.... as it's been hinted or stated throughout many threads now.

Back in the day, imo, there used to be solid achievement. Now with the current state of injury and land capping, it's a race to gang rape.

No one person or group launches anymore until they are on the top out in front and can bully whoever is in their way. All alliances if they are near the top ranks are all signed up for marathon interracial gangbanging.

So the instances for individual achievement or standing out in the crowd is now lost. Resistances used many people to be sure, but you had ringleaders... fights would fall apart, but then someone would come out and get in a lucky shot or do something cool that would be a turning point. Everyone would talk about it and be amazed.

Now it's ok group A is highest everyone send on Tuesday at 18:00. your group pick your id's, ours is xxxx. Rinse Repeat.

There is no more planning. There is no more victory. There is only finding out who has the patience to continue the grinding until everyone else drops out.

Skill used to be in knowing your enemy. Planning their and your next moves. Trying to force them into a bad situation.

Now it's resorted to 1 bad situation and that is hitting top first and everyone spending all their time and gusto beating you the frack down.

The game's momentum is stuck in neutral. Skill is passe.
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Old 28-04-2008, 03:45 PM   #3
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Default Re: Skill?

Ofc percentages i use come from thin air but to show how much i belive each counts:

Skilled attacker:

20% activity
50% determination
20% intelligence
10% experience

Skilled defender:

70% activity (contactibility enters here too)
20% determination
10% common sense
0% experience

That's for the average member not for an organizer
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Old 28-04-2008, 03:49 PM   #4
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Default Re: Skill?

Taking acres whilst being a high rank AND taking few to no losses time and time again. A good player will do it whereas a poor one cannot, no matter on how active he is.
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Old 28-04-2008, 03:53 PM   #5
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Default Re: Skill?

Skill has nothing to do with activity/contactability DS.

I define skill as the ability to do things better than others.

You can flak? I can also flak, but losing less flak.
You can gain land? I can gain land faster.
And so on... I hope you get the point.

And one more tihng, if you want a skill indicator then keep an eye on top 10 every round start.

I don't say that only those who are top 10 at the start are skilled, but those that are there are definately skilled.

[edit] By "round start" I mean the first 3-4 hours.
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Old 28-04-2008, 04:21 PM   #6
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Default Re: Skill?

Quote:
Originally Posted by CFalcon
Activity? No, any idiot can spend hours infront of their computer.
Knowing when to be active takes a small about of skill and knoledge - aka knowing when your enemy is most weak.

Quote:
Fast stealing? No, anyone can spam gardeners and get their alliance to cover them.
Bs.
If anyone can do it, why do only a select few do it every round?
I tell you why = becaue they CAN and other CAN'T like f0xxy noob said.

Quote:
Holding on to land? No, any muppet can hit mass gurus/traps whatever.
Knowing how much to buy, when to just lose land instead?
What if you are a route like robo?
An alliance that can hold onto land either have mass active POM or skilled at organising defence.

Quote:
Bounty hunting? No, there's no skill in massing one unit and sending at routes that are weak against yours.
Go and do it then and get to rank 1.
Knowing when to fight battles and when to attack your opponent to gain bounty and how to still be able to survive takes skill.

Quote:
Organising mass attacks? Pfft, any idiot can say "mass id xxxx"
There is a difference between a mass and a bash.
Look it up.
Lukey, Silence, Me, Iof imo all had the skill of being able to organise on the top alliances to take them down last round.
Ofc it was coupled with the fact it was 2 v 1 but still ... it hadnt been done to any real effect that well the other rounds.

And then it was possible for Me and Lukey to organise defence on them and the old retal we did on pestif was not only skillfull imo but funny as.
Knowing that i could send my alliance at pestif in the order they sent in and the people they sent at to steal max land meant we lost 10k acres, had no damage at our place and then stole 40 - 45k acres back while 0ing a huge robo player and a vamp in defence.
Imo that has some skill in it - most other alliances would just defend like we saw.
I saw Jizz retalling this round aswell ... good tactics.

Quote:
Exploiting a loophole? Just because you stumbled upon a loophole, doesn't make you a skilled player
Getting the most out of it does.

I know you said these might not be your opinions i am just trying to rubbish past claims!
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Old 28-04-2008, 04:22 PM   #7
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Default Re: Skill?

Quote:
Originally Posted by CFalcon
Activity? No, any idiot can spend hours infront of their computer.
Definitely not. Activity has no refelction upon skill at all. All activity (and contactability) does is help someone finish a high rank which may make them appear skilled.
Quote:
Originally Posted by CFalcon
Fast stealing? No, anyone can spam gardeners and get their alliance to cover them.
Fast stealing while taking low losses/spending as little on flak as possible is skillful imo. Often you can hack the top 10 at the start and 8/10 will have 40mil+ flak whilst the other 2 have 10mil with just as much land (if not more).
Quote:
Originally Posted by CFalcon
Holding on to land? No, any muppet can hit mass gurus/traps whatever.
Depends on your route and whether you're allied or solo.
Quote:
Originally Posted by CFalcon
Bounty hunting? No, there's no skill in massing one unit and sending at routes that are weak against yours.
It doesn't take skill to suicide troops on someone with a huge bounty who you happen to fire before.
Quote:
Originally Posted by CFalcon
Holding a high rank on low activity? Anyone can make themselves a less attractive target than those around them eg bunkers/mass terrors.
Bunkers aside, it does take some skill to be able to buy the right troops so nobody attacks you (especially if you have a lot of land).
Quote:
Originally Posted by CFalcon
Organising mass attacks? Pfft, any idiot can say "mass id xxxx"
Define mass? Alliance attacks don't take too much skill. But organising a resistance singlehandedly does. Organsing defence against mass attacks (mass as in 90% of your members have incoming) also takes skill, imo. With defence you have a strict time limit (1 or 2 ticks) to work out what the hell you need to do whereas with attacks you can take as long as you like.
Quote:
Originally Posted by CFalcon
Exploiting a loophole? Just because you stumbled upon a loophole, doesn't make you a skilled player
Depends what you mean by loophole...Using something to your advantage such as experience to become nigh-on invincible takes skill. Abusing a bug such as that insurance bug someone found in r21 does not.

I think the two most important things in this game, especially when it comes to alliance play, are common sense and the ability to follow orders without screwing up. Without those, you'll never do well.
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Old 28-04-2008, 05:13 PM   #8
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Default Re: Skill?

I think people are skilled who, dont come over here on forums and moan about every single thing they come across and dont like ingame

ow and peopleskills far exceeds all mentioned above
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Old 28-04-2008, 05:42 PM   #9
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Default Re: Skill?

Skill is planning and knowledge to me, and being able to hold your own in any area of the game.

Firstly, i skilled player, what i call skill anyway. Is knowledgable? (spelling). They know there stuff, their routes and what does what. This comes in hand with planning.
Like polo said, you can see skill shine when you get rang at 3am, the alliance has 10/15 of its players being attacked, you can manage the defences, with little/no losses with some minor land hits (duh on that circumstances generaly), THEN rally the troops, to retall, bringing more land back, and dealing damage.
Or, organising the said attack in the first place, Placing an RPG to hit a robot, but send an SA/PoM with it to counter the RPGs counter route, then send a robot in a tick after to scare the last tickers. Spread the tactics across several targets within an alliance, spread across a few ticks, does wonders, and planning like that needs skill. Anyone with the right frame of mind can do it, but the knowledge is needed for the troop abilities.
Then we look at holding your own. I mean .. being able to perform well in an alliance, go on to win solo in private worlds and World 1, then take on a new rankin system and win that. Whilst also showing the game this can be done sat on your ass with 1hr activity a day? That is also skill
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Old 28-04-2008, 07:43 PM   #10
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Default Re: Skill?

Skill is to do more with less work than majority of people can.
As such even whining can be a skill

And we shouldnt forget all this e-penis lengthening.
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Old 28-04-2008, 07:45 PM   #11
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Default Re: Skill?

*Leading an alliance to victory takes skill - planning, politics, perseverance, motivation, etc.
*Organizing good defence against overwhelming forces with limited players/troops/mobs requires skill.
*Organizing successful attacks (and knowing when to pull) requires skill. Whether it be political skills in terms of rallying people, or in actual tactics. Both counts, however the circumstances determines how much it counts.
*Being better than others at stealing land requires skill (obviously).
*Managing not to over defend, and use the excess troops at either countering or keeping them in case of more inc.
* ...

In terms of determining whether a player is a good player you must also take into consideration his activity and his level of knowledge. Also, people can be skillful in different areas. Knowing your own weaknesses, and by that knowing when you must ask for assistance is another thing that, in my opinion, requires skill. However, that does border on knowledge, and there is a difference between skill and knowledge, however subtle and diffuse it might be.
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Old 28-04-2008, 08:14 PM   #12
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Default Re: Skill?

understanding that when the leader says do something, you do it immediately
Hail BW

oh and finding loopholes so you can replace the god awful bounty system, their pretty cool dudes
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Old 29-04-2008, 08:47 AM   #13
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Default Re: Skill?

f0xx, don't follow BW expressing your opinions and own definitions like they are the ultimate truth :p

As Dachi well put it knowing how to get land, how to bounty hunt, how to defend etc it's knowledge. That comes with each player level of intelligence, common sense and experience.
Skill imho it's applied knowledge and as such matters how much you can apply your knowledge, how determined you are to do the smart moves instead knowing it's not the best thing to do but picking the less effort way.
Might not be the definition in the dictionary, but in bushtarion i think skill is the indicator of how good a player is from all points of view.

And about first hours of the round .. not sure how much of that is skill and how much is math + determination to apply it. There are plenty smart kids around who if they had the will to calculate their start would make it in top 10, just that they cba
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Old 29-04-2008, 09:37 AM   #14
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Default Re: Skill?

Quote:
Originally Posted by DarkSider
And about first hours of the round .. not sure how much of that is skill and how much is math + determination to apply it. There are plenty smart kids around who if they had the will to calculate their start would make it in top 10, just that they cba
true, ive been rank 1 for 3 hrs on round start.... so F0xx is 100% wrong Q.E.D.
ow and i suck at math, so Darksider is wrong too.
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Old 29-04-2008, 05:05 PM   #15
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Default Re: Skill?

whats Q.E.D mean?
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