War breaks out in the Caucasus

[TheNamelessWonder]

Georgia and its breakaway province of South Ossetia were escalating hostilities with each other, but then Russia got involved, and that's never good. Stay tuned.

It's all over the major news sources, but I find Wikipedia always a good place to start:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/War_in_South_Ossetia_(2008)

[Alcibiades]

Russia Ftw!

[Garrett]

In Soviet Russia, WARS HAVE YOU!


da, was good time.

[Buzzy]

**** yeah

about time there was some action

i hope this escalates

[Bunion]

-.-

idiocy is rife.

[MattM]

Its a sad day for the international community when it sits back and watches Russia invade another country completely wantonly and openly. We should be acting now; get UN and Nato forces into Georgia now. Unless Russia wants the whole world on its back, they should back down.

I'm aware Russia has sent in its forces 'to protect Russian citizens in South Ossetia'. Cut out the crap Putin (yes, Putin, not the puppet President), this is openly trying to annexe another country's territory. Blockading Black Sea ports? Missile strikes in and around Georgian military bases near Tblisi? This is a declaration of war. It makes me sick.

[Bunion]

My best friend is doing an internship at the UN atm, and since this happened, has had 3 hours sleep a night. They are doing something...

</3 bureaucracy.

[No-Dachi]

They're probably doing a lot of discussion, coffe-drinking, "self-sacrification", and lots of other types of important, time-consuming excuses.

[TheNamelessWonder]

Well there isn't much they can do, since Russia has veto power on the Security Council.

[Bunion]

And thus the endless debate over wtf they can do.

Only thing they can do atm is talk talk the russians into pulling out...like that's going to happen -.-

[Jorizz]

First off all I'd like to express my concern over this topic, this seems one of those conflicts that could get completly out of hand. First of all, the UN is powerless as stated, its got a veto and so does its buddy China. The only organisation that can act now is the NATO, now I'd oppose a NATO intervention mainly because people need to realise the 'glorious' West is no longer there, we send NATO troops there and **** hits the fan. China, India, The Middle East, Africa, Japan would all - possibly military - support Russia. It would be a battle that first of all would not be worth it and is impossible to win. This is just Russia flexing its muscles because of the Serbia/Kosovo thing showing it will not tolerate people scrambling in their backyard, Georgia's president made major oppertunistic diplomatic mistakes and I'm afraid he's just going to have to pay the price..

[Angela]

First off all I'd like to express my concern over this topic, this seems one of those conflicts that could get completly out of hand. First of all, the UN is powerless as stated, its got a veto and so does its buddy China. The only organisation that can act now is the NATO, now I'd oppose a NATO intervention mainly because people need to realise the 'glorious' West is no longer there, we send NATO troops there and smeg hits the fan. China, India, The Middle East, Africa, Japan would all - possibly military - support Russia. It would be a battle that first of all would not be worth it and is impossible to win. This is just Russia flexing its muscles because of the Serbia/Kosovo thing showing it will not tolerate people scrambling in their backyard, Georgia's president made major oppertunistic diplomatic mistakes and I'm afraid he's just going to have to pay the price..

The people who die in the war pay the price and because the president made diplomatic mistakes doesnt make it right!

[No-Dachi]

First off all I'd like to express my concern over this topic, this seems one of those conflicts that could get completly out of hand. First of all, the UN is powerless as stated, its got a veto and so does its buddy China. The only organisation that can act now is the NATO, now I'd oppose a NATO intervention mainly because people need to realise the 'glorious' West is no longer there, we send NATO troops there and **** hits the fan. China, India, The Middle East, Africa, Japan would all - possibly military - support Russia. It would be a battle that first of all would not be worth it and is impossible to win. This is just Russia flexing its muscles because of the Serbia/Kosovo thing showing it will not tolerate people scrambling in their backyard, Georgia's president made major oppertunistic diplomatic mistakes and I'm afraid he's just going to have to pay the price..


Japan rushing in to support Russia? heh..

[Hobbezak]

First off all I'd like to express my concern over this topic, this seems one of those conflicts that could get completly out of hand. First of all, the UN is powerless as stated, its got a veto and so does its buddy China. The only organisation that can act now is the NATO, now I'd oppose a NATO intervention mainly because people need to realise the 'glorious' West is no longer there, we send NATO troops there and **** hits the fan. China, India, The Middle East, Africa, Japan would all - possibly military - support Russia. It would be a battle that first of all would not be worth it and is impossible to win. This is just Russia flexing its muscles because of the Serbia/Kosovo thing showing it will not tolerate people scrambling in their backyard, Georgia's president made major oppertunistic diplomatic mistakes and I'm afraid he's just going to have to pay the price..


Japan rushing in to support Russia? heh..

Or India for that matter. :)

[No-Dachi]

First off all I'd like to express my concern over this topic, this seems one of those conflicts that could get completly out of hand. First of all, the UN is powerless as stated, its got a veto and so does its buddy China. The only organisation that can act now is the NATO, now I'd oppose a NATO intervention mainly because people need to realise the 'glorious' West is no longer there, we send NATO troops there and **** hits the fan. China, India, The Middle East, Africa, Japan would all - possibly military - support Russia. It would be a battle that first of all would not be worth it and is impossible to win. This is just Russia flexing its muscles because of the Serbia/Kosovo thing showing it will not tolerate people scrambling in their backyard, Georgia's president made major oppertunistic diplomatic mistakes and I'm afraid he's just going to have to pay the price..


Japan rushing in to support Russia? heh..

Or India for that matter. :)

I'd love to see Africa unite and rally up to save the northern bear as well ;p

[Hobbezak]

[quote=Jorizz]First off all I'd like to express my concern over this topic, this seems one of those conflicts that could get completly out of hand. First of all, the UN is powerless as stated, its got a veto and so does its buddy China. The only organisation that can act now is the NATO, now I'd oppose a NATO intervention mainly because people need to realise the 'glorious' West is no longer there, we send NATO troops there and **** hits the fan. China, India, The Middle East, Africa, Japan would all - possibly military - support Russia. It would be a battle that first of all would not be worth it and is impossible to win. This is just Russia flexing its muscles because of the Serbia/Kosovo thing showing it will not tolerate people scrambling in their backyard, Georgia's president made major oppertunistic diplomatic mistakes and I'm afraid he's just going to have to pay the price..


Japan rushing in to support Russia? heh..

Or India for that matter. :)

I'd love to see Africa unite and rally up to save the northern bear as well ;p[/quote:3h744bbx]

Yeah, everyone hates the West! :(

[f0xx]

West? Russia is East... The Americas are west.

[Hobbezak]

West? Russia is East... The Americas are west.

OMG really? :O
Ofcourse I meant to make lightly sarcastic comment towards Jorizz. :(
Sarcasm on forums, it's a dangerous combination. :'(

[f0xx]

I don't like making jokes about war...

[Hobbezak]

I don't like making jokes about war...

Wasn't referring to war, I was referring to the black-and-white picture that Jorizz painted about the current international allegiances.

[Charlie_B]

Well, contrary to all the panicking on IRC last night, it seems that Russia isn't "about to sack the capital!!!" or try to annex Georgia. They made a display of resolution and military might in order to a) bring discussions about the autonomy of South Ossetia firmly onto the international agenda and b) stop Georgia - the initial aggressors (whom everyone seems to be painting as as poor victim) from bombing its own civilians. They've agreed to the EU brokered peace talks including the proviso that their military will withdraw to its previous positions.

Pretty much exactly what I said would happen last night ;)

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/7555858.stm

I find Wikipedia always a good place to start

Wikipedia is never a good place to start, and that goes double for any issue as highly polarised as this.

[Bunion]

Even if Georgia were the aggressors in that they moved into into South Ossetia to quell dissidents, South Ossetia is still Georgian territory, and whilst what they did there would be abhorrent, the solution is diplomatic, not an INVASION by the Russian army, killing Georgian soldiers and civilians whilst ransacking cities and bombing military installations.

[TheNamelessWonder]

Have the Russians stopped attacking? According to this (http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/26116598) source, the Russians are still attacking despite what Medvedev said.

[brainiac132]

i've read that too, on several news sources. although, one said it was based on the what the president of georgia said (and he seems to have done a bit of lying throughout this conflict as well).

[Buzzy]

lame :( I want them to sack the capital :(

[Garrett]

BRING BACK THE USSR! YOU KNOW WHO YOU ARE!

[Bunion]

lame :( I want them to sack the capital :(

It is all well and good playing video games and running your tanks through an opponent's base. On the other hand, when a real war breaks out in a real country and real people are killed, it rather removes the fun of it all.

Not only do you seem insensitive when you post comments like that, you come out as incredibly stupid.

Think before posting such rubbish next time.

[Forwyn]

Well, contrary to all the panicking on IRC last night, it seems that Russia isn't "about to sack the capital!!!" or try to annex Georgia. They made a display of resolution and military might

Yes, that including trying to bomb the BTC pipeline and actually bombing the Black Sea port of Poti - in other words, attempting to disrupt the petroleum economy centered around the pipeline that Russia has for so long demonized.

in order to a) bring discussions about the autonomy of South Ossetia firmly onto the international agenda

Its already been discussed, and Abkhazia had UN accepted peacekeepers. South Ossetia didn't, and neither were recognized as sovereign. So, 1) South Ossetia is part of Georgia, and 2) any "Russian peacekeepers" in the region were there without UN approval.

and b) stop Georgia - the initial aggressors (whom everyone seems to be painting as as poor victim) from bombing its own civilians.

Baloney - South Ossetian rebels sending rockets into Georgia proper just hours after the ceasefire seem to be getting little or no press time.

Besides, South Ossetia is a province. Being a province of Georgia, this was nothing but an internal conflict. Russia can claim they were protecting peacekeepers, but they shouldn't have been there in the first place. Russia can claim they were protecting their citizens, but they were just "protecting" Georgian citizens who were offered citizenship just a couple years ago to further destabilize Georgia's(a potentional NATO member) control in the region. Finally, Russia can claim they were trying to prevent "genocide" of civilians. What they won't mention is that South Ossetian paramilitary doesn't differ much from Lebanese terrorists - their primary hiding place is among the civilian population.

Russia violated the sovereignty of a country on multiple fronts to secure a region that it was one of the only countries in the world to recognize as independent, all the while inferring that South Ossetia might one day be absorbed into Russia.

[Buzzy]

lame :( I want them to sack the capital :(

It is all well and good playing video games and running your tanks through an opponent's base. On the other hand, when a real war breaks out in a real country and real people are killed, it rather removes the fun of it all.

Not only do you seem insensitive when you post comments like that, you come out as incredibly stupid.

Think before posting such rubbish next time.

I'm not comparing this to a video game.

I am insensitive. I don't value human life at all. Consider me stupid all you want, I could not care less what you think of me.

[No-Dachi]

Be that as may be, you should still be careful of voicing strong opinions in forums such as these - you never know what kind of people will be reading your posts - what they've been through, and what your posts can do to them.

[Garrett]

if strong opinions... and opinions is key word here, sway a person that badly... they shouldn't step out of the house and definitely not step out into the internet. even in a G rated place... and this isn't.

People can post their support for peace AND people can post their support FOR war.

Him not valuing life doesn't make him dumb.

Either all sides need to be allowed to be discussed or none of them can be imo.

[No-Dachi]

I've never said or meant that poster to be a stupid person - but I do think that, without limiting anyones freedom of speach, one can (and should) moderate ones words.

[Garrett]

hmm i guess i still don't see where saying 'i wanted them to sack the capital' is a point that needs moderated by others or by self.

not that I wanted to be in iraq, but i sure as hell don't want all our troops dying so I hope they squash people.

it's called rooting for your side?

[brainiac132]

[quote="Charlie_B"]They've agreed to the EU brokered peace talks including the proviso that their military will withdraw to its previous positions.

Pretty much exactly what I said would happen last night ;)

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/7555858.stm
[quote]

Wow...and 2 days later russia still is running around through georgia. maybe not destroying everything like they were...but they're not so far honoring the ceasefire. u really called that one charlie boy :roll:

and u know, i disagree that wikipedia is a bad place to start...it has sources like everything else. it can give u a decent starting place by making u ask questions, then following up on those sources etc. i wouldn't use it in this case just cause it's easier to find what i need at the sources themselve, but for someone who might not know the full issues behind the matter and wished to explore it, u could have worse places to start:p. he didn't act like it was the final authority on the matter.

[TheNamelessWonder]

Russia: Georgia will not be getting back Abkhazia, South Ossetia.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/26116598

[Forwyn]

I say now that Poland is in with the missile shield, try to get Georgia in on it to, with Czechoslovakia. :D

[Maxi]

Russia is (planning to) get some nuclear warheads on their Baltic fleet to counter the shield in Poland. Has the cold war ever ended? :roll:

[Bunion]

Think it was on a 19 year Hiatus...

[Forwyn]

Lol, the Baltic fleet