Petrol Bombers

[Rosa]

I find petrol bombers extremely annoying. Annoying in the sense that they're way overpowered of a unit and that they're kicking the hamburgers out of me night and day.

Why is petrol bombers overpowered?
-When they first come out they're the god unit, you're dead if they hit you and you can't get online, however even after their godly phase, they're still an amazing unit.
-PBs hitting pure NLD [1 mill PBs on pure NLD does 20 bill damage] as [1 mill bikers on pure NLD only does 10 - 12 bill damage]
-Even apaches have problems against mass PBs

Many people say that the down side of PBs is that they're really easy to kill, but honestly they really aren't. They're so amazingly cheap that even if you kill a lot, you really didn't do much damage.

List of possible of solutions
-Change PBs to 4 eta
-Make them cost 33 k at least (What I would like to see)
-Take away their armor (LSP can't even do a 2:1 ratio on PBs)

I used to find PBs annoying, however these past rounds where they've been massed you start to realize how extremely cheap and powerful they really are.

[Twigley]

No, no, no, no.

Firstly.
PB own when they come out? So what, so do PA when they come out, so do POMS when they come out, so do Strikers when they come out. Ban them aswell? Those units also pwn all day long.

Secondly.
If you are getting owned by just PB as a POM player, you dont have enough Poms, or your alliance defence is rubbish. Dont blame the PB's...

Thirdly.
Apaches having a problem? Get some marines and then lets see a problem.

Fourth.
Eta 4? So you cant send them on rushes with your bikers?? NO!
Can we also make SA eta 5 so i can get vamp defence in time aswell? :/

Fith, Sixth, etc etc - NO! :P

[Rosa]

No, no, no, no.

Yes, yes, yes, yes!

Firstly.
No PAs do not own when they come out - emps are out, no poms do not own when they come out - bikers are out, strikers only kill robos so they're not exactly the most destructive force ever. Is there a counter for PBs when they come out? no, ban please :D

Secondly.
I already expected the bikers to slap me across the face, but I never expected PBs to give it to me so hard. I blame them completely.

Thirdly.
Get even more PBs?

Fourth.
I'm trying to discourage let rushing here. So yes please.

Fith, Sixth, etc etc - Yes! >:D

[Twigley]

Firstly.
No PAs do not own when they come out - emps are out,


Hardly any alliance will have an emp player online 24/7


no poms do not own when they come out - bikers are out,

Pfft, poms own all the time.
When i have been poms, at all levels of play, i have always been able to get past like 6/7 people defending someone ... even if there is a few m bikers which there never is!


strikers only kill robos so they're not exactly the most destructive force ever.


Strikers own gargs which are a major annoyance early on like PB.


Is there a counter for PBs when they come out? no, ban please :D


Yes, alliance defence of PB.
And then a day or so later - Gargolye defence.

Gargs rape PB to shreds.
So there is no counter for a day or so? Pfft big woooop!


Secondly.
I already expected the bikers to slap me across the face, but I never expected PBs to give it to me so hard. I blame them completely.


Tbh PB only really hurt the gurus .. they do sweet F/a to poms and HV.


Thirdly.
Get even more PBs?


Get alliance/ gov defence, and or get more apaches?


Fourth.
I'm trying to discourage let rushing here. So yes please.


You are trying to discourage something that keeps maybe 100 people actually playing anymore?
You are trying to discourage a valid war tactic?

-1 alliance defence boost - look it up.

[alien]

Yes, yes, yes, yes!

totally
I agree with Rosa
PBs are a pain in the neck

They are too overpowered
They target All, so basically if they fire all your units are gone
No other unit can basically counter PBs when they fire come out
PBs can wtfpwned everyone 1 vs. 1 as long as they are the same size

I personally think that you should change it so they target LET/ALL

Yes, Yes, YES! :D
change PBs

[Twigley]

Wtf?
You know nothing.

LET/ALL would make them stronger, not weaker.
:S


GARGS COUNTER PB RUSH
APACHE COUNTERS PB RUSH
PBS COUNTER PB

STOP YOUR MOANING.

[Rosa]

Hardly any alliance will have an emp player online 24/7

And what alliance will have a PA player online 24/7?


Pfft, poms own all the time.
When i have been poms, at all levels of play, i have always been able to get past like 6/7 people defending someone ... even if there is a few m bikers which there never is!

And this round I see over 10 people with mass bikers / PBs? :P


Strikers own gargs which are a major annoyance early on like PB.


And now we need something to own PBs :D


Yes, alliance defence of PB.
And then a day or so later - Gargolye defence.

Gargs rape PB to shreds.
So there is no counter for a day or so? Pfft big woooop!


Unless if gargs got powered up and I don't know about it, gargs only do a 2:1 ratio on PBs, which is pretty bad considering how much more expensive gargs are


Tbh PB only really hurt the gurus .. they do sweet F/a to poms and HV.


That is if you distract them all... let them fire purely on your poms / hv, you'll be in a world of pain


You are trying to discourage something that keeps maybe 100 people actually playing anymore?
You are trying to discourage a valid war tactic?

-1 alliance defence boost - look it up.

The -1 alliance defence boost only saids attempt, it sometimes fails! On a more serious note, if I can get rid of those 100 people who only play to rush people for candy and giggles, I'm confident that more people will come and play this game. Also I'm not discouraging a valid war tactic, if the changes go through, you'll just have to do it at 4 eta instead of 3

[Twigley]

It seems you do not understand.



And what alliance will have a PA player online 24/7?


Not the point, we are talking about being attacked.
The units that counter.


And this round I see over 10 people with mass bikers / PBs? :P

And i have seen many pom players get straight though it with minimal - no losses and land.


And now we need something to own PBs :D

GARGS EARLY ON.
AFTER THAT:

Apache
Assasin + SA
Attack dog last tick
Cw
Dragon
f117
Fanatic
Flames last tick
GARGS
Grenaider
HT last tick
HW
Marines
POM
PA
Ranger
RPG + Sniper
Sentry
SA
Sorcs
Spikes last tick
TL
TD
Vamps
VD last tick
Werewolf
Witch

..

[Rosa]

It seems like you don't get the point of this suggestion at all or maybe you choose to ignore it. Everything kills everything yes we get that point twigley.

Technically if someone massed snipers I could own a SO who didn't mass on SAs. However the point is that petrols cost way too less, the damage they can produce is insane and the weakness about them dying easily isn't all that true.

So my solution is make them more expensive, don't let people rush them or amp up their weakness to make it more than just a myth.

[Subdivisions]

Um, PBs are not overpowered. They fire waaaaaay late in the tick. The only way PBs can stay alive is if the player buys lots of bikers/jeeps to help spread out the fire. It's not like ppl can just mass PBs and they suddenly become some immortal, all-powerful weapon of mass destruction.

Just because some people can kill you is no reason to complain. PBs shouldn't fire on a PoM unless the PoM is 30% of their score, or the PoM has a horrible ratio going on...

PBs are just fine, considering over 75% of the LETs in the game can kill them effectively.

I'm so sick of people wanting to turn this game into a game with flower guns and water balloons...especially when it's the case of "my route doesn't just completely destroy/distract everything, the other routes need to be nerfed!"

[DarkSider]

If petrols are overpowered make sure ppl in your lliance mass them aswell. THen you have petrols defending you, you can also use gargs and harriers quite well.

And off topic, <3 Subbie :D

[Nonny]

PB's are annoying you this round so nerf them??

Raise the cost and make the thug route even more vulnerable to robo, military and fantasy? Raise the cost of the only thug unit, (P-Unit aside), which can do any kind of damage against armour? Let's make another route pure alliance as solo's would get ripped up by most of the other routes in the game if they use it?

Sorcerer's target all as well, fire faster and are significantly tougher. If you can't stop PB with POM's you have no chance against these.

What an incredibly blinkered view. This suggestion is based purely on making your game easier because your alliance isn't up to the job and you can't be bothered to change your ratios.

Apache's have problems with PB's..... You must be assuming the apache player has no, or minimal strikers...?? Zero grenadiers as well. Obviously the apache has no issues dealing out HD and of course the military routes are so lacking in doing armour damage..... Any apache player who gets creamed by any thug route, quite frankly, deserves it.

PB targetting Let/All....!!??? See above about blinkered view!

Is this really the way things are going? Is it me or are posts about units being 'unfair' and therefore in need of nerfing on the up? "This unit is making it hard for me this round, let's change it?" :roll:

Is this your first post on the subject? Why not ask for advise on how to deal with it first? Even multi-round experienced players, (recently Cheese), will ask for advise before jumping to the conclusion that it must be the game is wrong.

[Melnibone]

Im so dissapointed in you Rosa.......

PB's are not overpowered anyone whos played the game at any level will agree if their not being selfish or grumpy? which mood are you in?

[CLem]

Apache's have problems with PB's..... You must be assuming the apache player has no, or minimal strikers...?? Zero grenadiers as well. Obviously the apache has no issues dealing out HD and of course the military routes are so lacking in doing armour damage..... Any apache player who gets creamed by any thug route, quite frankly, deserves it.


From my past experience, thug route actually do really well against apaches, especially before when exps exists. A couple of rounds ago I went thug with no TLs and apache (preferably no marines) and puppet routes were like gold mines for me. How so? Terrors clear the flk, you don't need much of these, then hoolies to block a chunk of the armours, then PBs do madness.

[Melnibone]

Haha Clem you were also in Saplings when me and RichardM were owning any and all apache incoming (and we were both thug)

[Mysterious]

Lol. I think you're wrong Rosa. PBs aren't overpowered to be honest. I think that people are just flakking the PBs with other LET when they're sending at you so they actually fire and get through. Normally, they should hardly even fire at you if you're PoM :P

[f0xx]

Lol.... PBs overpowered....

Next we will have threads like hools are overpowered, Cyborg Sordliers are overpowered and then definately Marines are overpowered. Marines are teh **** I tell you.

[Chewie]

PBs are a little cheap imo when you compare them to other units such as officers (why they cost 35k i still dont know) and ninjas. But other than that they fold really easily.

[william86x]

Noone thinks that thug route is imbalanced. PBs are not good, they fire late + die easy. And btw you dont flak thug route, you kill it. Or if you flakk, you flakk with tractors/Com.harvesters.

[f0xx]

TBH, everything in the PB branch is fold after the removal of XP. The only thing the branch is really good in, is kiling flak. Other than that, name a route who wont be able to beat it, a route with a smart ratio setup that is.

[Souls]

TBH, everything in the PB branch is fold after the removal of XP. The only thing the branch is really good in, is kiling flak. Other than that, name a route who wont be able to beat it, a route with a smart ratio setup that is.

Rangers without F-117 are kinda hard-pressed to beat an equal-sized TL player, both with smart setups, but that's just my views from last round. :)

[Nonny]

From my past experience, thug route actually do really well against apaches, especially before when exps exists. A couple of rounds ago I went thug with no TLs and apache (preferably no marines) and puppet routes were like gold mines for me. How so? Terrors clear the flk, you don't need much of these, then hoolies to block a chunk of the armours, then PBs do madness.

I used terrors the same way when I went the route. Fantastic for narrowing the 'All' targetting of the PB's. I tried using hooligans in numbers against an AR aggressor, in this case robo. The numbers needed seemed way too high for me without putting a big, "bend me over", sign around my neck for the health based routes. With fantasy vampire added to that now....

I'm guessing you were an alliance petrol bomber player? I'd be surprised if a solo player could mass enough hooligans to counter an equal sized AR heavy opponent without leaving themselves open to the health defence routes?? (TL's not included)

Granted I see things from a solo set-up. Which I believe, rightly or wrongly, tend to use more balanced set-ups through need to survive. In that sense I'm liable to get things way wrong when scenarios involve slipping through an alliance defence.

Puppets with few steel walls, or poor bribes? A bit hard to judge in all honesty I suppose because so many set-ups can be available to a good briber some way into the round.

[CLem]

[p] W1, R23 Evil Thug of Joyful Biker Inc [279] Illustrious 11,743 11,177 P-Solo


I used terrors the same way when I went the route. Fantastic for narrowing the 'All' targetting of the PB's. I tried using hooligans in numbers against an AR aggressor, in this case robo. The numbers needed seemed way too high for me without putting a big, "bend me over", sign around my neck for the health based routes. With fantasy vampire added to that now....

Yes, f-117 rush, vamp rush and SA still ****ed me over that round, but all route have their arch enermies.

I'm guessing you were an alliance petrol bomber player? I'd be surprised if a solo player could mass enough hooligans to counter an equal sized AR heavy opponent without leaving themselves open to the health defence routes?? (TL's not included)

Refer to the top and the title next to the name.

Granted I see things from a solo set-up. Which I believe, rightly or wrongly, tend to use more balanced set-ups through need to survive. In that sense I'm liable to get things way wrong when scenarios involve slipping through an alliance defence.

The reference was about apache route against thug route, a simple 1v1 scenario, which by the time that an apache player get to fire his apaches, they already have lost a large chunk of their firepower. But if they survive till last tick, then yeah the thug is screwed

[fatalforcex]

From my experience, Thug-Pb pwns Apache route :P

Bikers clear NLD
Terrors clear all the flak + health units (HW + grens)
Pb's target strikers and apchos! (fire earlier than apchos!)

:D

[Cyrus]

thats why you have grens :)

[Turnip2k]

Thug PB does indeed cripple apache route - Bikers kills NLD, TL's will kill all the health lets / flak, PB's will destroy the armour. Due to marines having armour as well as health, I find TL's do slightly better against them than SA's if you look at cost to damage done. If all the health flak isnt gone, assassins do pretty terribly against the remaining armour. PB's cost 22.5k each and do incredible amouts of damage for their cost and stage at which they arrive - all the cost of them is piled into killing stats and as a result of this they die quite easy.

For anyone who plays apache route, build lots of yobs. Its the unit that will save you from thug PB hits - many people seem to not do this.

[kwyjibo]

I see your point that they may be very good in the start since they come out so early, but this has minimal impact on the round itself, it might set you back once.

Later on I agree with twig, they are not that good even with their low cost and good dmg. I'm striker (with marines) if I have enough flak I just giggle and go for it. Sure their 1star in health and armor are good, but its still not that much ;)

[No-Dachi]

I see your point that they may be very good in the start since they come out so early, but this has minimal impact on the round itself, it might set you back once.



From a single players perspective that is true - however, when your whole ally is smashed by petrols it sets you back quite a lot. And just to clarify; I'm not talking about Protest here, as we were practically holding up a banner asking you petrol players to come and rape us. But there has been several rounds won(valuation) with PB being the core unit involved.

[Hobbezak]

I see your point that they may be very good in the start since they come out so early, but this has minimal impact on the round itself, it might set you back once.



From a single players perspective that is true - however, when your whole ally is smashed by petrols it sets you back quite a lot. And just to clarify; I'm not talking about Protest here, as we were practically holding up a banner asking you petrol players to come and rape us. But there has been several rounds won(valuation) with PB being the core unit involved.

That's also what the Bulgarians tried against Ashes. They failed though. :p

[Melnibone]

it only works with non contactable allies PB's only fire m/r therefore if your online not a problem

[Hobbezak]

it only works with non contactable allies PB's only fire m/r therefore if your online not a problem

Bollocks though, if you have pb-boosts following people going for land...
That's what Jizz/RedTube did on Protest this round, and what I assume can work on your general alliance too.

btw I'm not at all saying pb are overpowered, even though I found them nasty, even as a PA. :(