Bribecap

[Charlie_B]

At the risk of Silence, Ric et al beating me to death with their puppets, this clearly needs to be suggested.

At the moment, there is nothing around to prevent people ganging up in big groups and bashing players at the very bottom of their range if they only want bribes and don't care about land. My suggestion would be a bribecap that works exactly as the landcap does, modifying the number of men you can bribe based on the lawfullness of your attack.

[Bobbin]

ah now that's a brilliant idea, I'd even suggest the same for converts too...

the lower you bash, the less you get. Brilliant! :D

[JJbrosandjl]

lmao Charlie is evil

[Franny]

I know the lower attack % the lower % you kill! Excellent !

[willymchilybily]

i like!...how much

but does that mean the unit is weaker at lower ranges. making it a bit unfair? or is it more. it kills the same but bribes less (and is now basically a converter)

EDIT: on second thoughts doesnt matter. you dont send bribers because they are good at killing. you send them for the bribing. so i guess as long as they are still just as powerfull in defence then it wont matter

[Cyrus]

here's an idea too, but all your companies inside our own bubbles with water pistols and just squirt each other and send flowers.

[Alcibiades]

here's an idea too, but all your companies inside our own bubbles with water pistols and just squirt each other and send flowers.

I'll squirt you, but it's definitely no water pistol ;)

[Polo]

ah now that's a brilliant idea, I'd even suggest the same for converts too...
Agreed.

Willy, I wouldn't have thought the units would be weaker, just that a percentage of what you bribe/convert would actually die.

[harriergirl]

OH holy hell why don't we just sew a pussy on this game and put it in a dress.

[DarkSider]

I don't really like it :P
Puppets and other bribing units are very weak, cost a bomb and have pretty low damage (especially AD). All this makes a necesity to bribe players with imbalanced setups, underdeveloped, weak troops, and also overwhelm them with your mob size. I wouldn't agree giving bribers less of the units bribed but it could be a decent ideea to give to the victims a part of the units back depending how unlawfull the attack was.
But naturally i would want old l/f and bounty back as that was a much better option to deal with this while keeping it a war game. Now with all the damage limiters kills,land and now bribes it would make the game too much land based and that's just too simple and old fashioned :P

[f0xx]

Well I don't like the idea too. There is no way a briber can efficiently attack a target on his own score... Some other balance thingie is needed, but thats just not it.

I would also consider injury rates for bribed units on the side of the enemy, as at the moment the lowbies not only get mashed by bribers but they get NO injury rate for that too...

[cervantes]

It would be fair to adjust this and getting it in line with the land cap.

But then: my opinion is that ther are WAY TOO MANY adjustments recently. Almost every round we see more and more changes, non of them are included into the manual whatosever. What the heck? I am afraid I start to sound like Blackwolf here, but he is right: All those changes and crap that is introduced make the game more and more complicated and drives people away. It started with the introduction of three different ranking systems. The change from "Score" to "government valuation". What the heck is "government valuation" to a new player?
I had a four round break, and when I came back so many things were different. And now, from one round to another, more changes were introduced, while the ones introduced a round back arent even working properly yet nor included in the manual. This is bollocks tbh...
Sorry, I am ranting a bit off topic, but I am strongly in line with Blackwolf when he says it is a shame to see the game we love to go down step by step. I feel a bit like that too.

Well, to get back on topic. I would not introduce it. Why change things that work? Bribing is hard enough as it is, and if someone cannot prevent a bribing attack, then he is usually not set up properly or not teched ennough, things that can be changed.

[Nonny]

I see where it's coming from and on the face of it it's logical but then shouldn't we reduce LET efficiency at lower ranges too?

In which case what about POM's et al. Shouldn't they disable / distract less? Where does it end?

[Souls]

I don't really like it :P
Puppets and other bribing units are very weak, cost a bomb and have pretty low damage (especially AD). All this makes a necesity to bribe players with imbalanced setups, underdeveloped, weak troops, and also overwhelm them with your mob size. I wouldn't agree giving bribers less of the units bribed but it could be a decent ideea to give to the victims a part of the units back depending how unlawfull the attack was.
But naturally i would want old l/f and bounty back as that was a much better option to deal with this while keeping it a war game. Now with all the damage limiters kills,land and now bribes it would make the game too much land based and that's just too simple and old fashioned :P

QFT!

[Enrico]

This suggestion is not worth the byte's it occupies in cyberspace, in my opinion.

Bribing is extremely difficult as it is, with expensive and slow units, which are not even particullarly strong.

But to even out things a bit, maybe all major routes should have one bribing branch?

Right now only thugs are left without. Maybe a reorganization on the arson route... drop arsonist in favour of some bribing unit?

Anyone who complains about bribers being to easy can never have tried playing for bribes in earnest I think. It's fun, but difficult. Puppets are SOs "imba HRDmode" :P

[dafe]

bribe units cant be reduced, ever tried to bribe some decent units with hypnos? you dont have lethal flak to have them get trough if your fighting a same size target...but i do agree that the injury rate should apply on bribed units as well...after all you do lose staff

[MattM]

ah now that's a brilliant idea, I'd even suggest the same for converts too...

the lower you bash, the less you get. Brilliant! :D

I agree with Bobbin, it is a great idea. As Charlie says, way too many people bashing at +1/+2 (mainly puppets it has to be said, but I have seen mass bashes with cloners). With no injuries for bribes, this just doesn't match up.

[kyx]

this is a brilliant idea. However, Azzer, always willing to satisfy HIS DEAR DEAR DEAR PAYERS, will definitely not do this as the PAYING COMMUNITY will definitely not be happy. And all azzer cares about are those losers who have to buy P-units to survive.

Just think about it: Azzer very kindly gave those players the only way to effectively bribe, which is an fact a 100% bounty and no injury system.

Yes, it's a great idea, but Azzer wont do crap about it cos he lurves his payers.

[pinpower]

dont really have time to post a full reply...just to say i definately agree with this suggestion...it just makes sense...

[CLem]

99/100 times you cannot get a profit out of bribing if you attack "lawfully". It is a route that can ONLY kill small people OR people with stupid set ups, take that edge away no-one will play it.

Not a chance that a puppet route can stand up against another normal route that is similar size as themselves early on in the game until they get some decent bribes and they can't get there unless they "bash" to start.

Also I have never seen a puppet player being able to zero someone with just bribes when they are against a developed route and a normal set-up. At most you get half in kills and half in bribes (and this is when the puppet player really lucky), so not like you don't get anything back, you just don't get as MUCH as being attacked by other routes, if you get owned that much by a puppet route..then well ouchie for you.

P.S if you are a poor sod Assassin, POM or a Sorc player then I do feel sorry for you, cause they are the three routes that I would say takes the most beatings from a Puppet player without being able to do anything much if they do decide to bash you.

[kyx]

Yes, I am in one of those 3 sad routes.

Fact is, noone actually attacks lawfully now. Puppet Masters and their Hypnotist friends attack people less than half their size over and over again and those poor people wont be able to do much about it.

Even still, the best way to stop this is to make the AR mod from getting bribed MUCH HIGHER. Around 3 or 4 times the current amount will be best.

[No-Dachi]

Bribed units could have a value of say 1,2 times the original unit - if this really is a problem. That should make the briber move out of range faster, and not being able to continuously attack one or two players.


You could also make it less efficient below 40% - although I'm in general not too keen on limiting this route too much.

[Nonny]

this is a brilliant idea. However, Azzer, always willing to satisfy HIS DEAR DEAR DEAR PAYERS, will definitely not do this as the PAYING COMMUNITY will definitely not be happy. And all azzer cares about are those losers who have to buy P-units to survive.

Just think about it: Azzer very kindly gave those players the only way to effectively bribe, which is an fact a 100% bounty and no injury system.

Yes, it's a great idea, but Azzer wont do crap about it cos he lurves his payers.


Absolutely right. Everything should be free.

So why don't you get in touch with Azzer and offer to pay his annual income then we can all play with P-Units for free, hurrah!!

You won't do it? Oh ... why not......?

[kyx]

I'm not saying tt everything should be free. I'm just saying tt Azzer prefers the paying part of the community and thus won't weaken their stuff.

[CLem]

I'm not saying tt everything should be free. I'm just saying tt Azzer prefers the paying part of the community and thus won't weaken their stuff.

this is utter bollocks, p-units such as SA and TL had been weakened before iirc.

[f0xx]

I'm not saying tt everything should be free. I'm just saying tt Azzer prefers the paying part of the community and thus won't weaken their stuff.

As someone said, take a deep breath and pull your head out of your arse :lol:

[Nonny]

99/100 times you cannot get a profit out of bribing if you attack "lawfully". It is a route that can ONLY kill small people OR people with stupid set ups, take that edge away no-one will play it.

Not a chance that a puppet route can stand up against another normal route that is similar size as themselves early on in the game until they get some decent bribes and they can't get there unless they "bash" to start.

Also I have never seen a puppet player being able to zero someone with just bribes when they are against a developed route and a normal set-up. At most you get half in kills and half in bribes (and this is when the puppet player really lucky), so not like you don't get anything back, you just don't get as MUCH as being attacked by other routes, if you get owned that much by a puppet route..then well ouchie for you.

P.S if you are a poor sod Assassin, POM or a Sorc player then I do feel sorry for you, cause they are the three routes that I would say takes the most beatings from a Puppet player without being able to do anything much if they do decide to bash you.

:respekt:

Perfect argument.

The idea that bribes should be treated the same as kills makes wonderful theory but practise is a whole different ball game. After all communism is a wonderful idea too.

Maybe I'm wrong but I don't recall bribers ever dominating the game and they're not now either. They've always been something of a niche for experienced players. All the injury changes have done is level the playing for bribers. Ok so this has led to greater numbers than there traditionally would be. Surely variety in the game is a good thing?

If you're being targetted by bribers time and time again either your set-up sucks or you chose a route which as a solo you should have been prepared to buy the P-unit for. Some routes will always attract bribers but any route can be set-up to make it not worth the bribers while.

It may well be that there are a lot more inexperienced bribers out there learning the trade? They may be choosing poorly and coming off the worst as they learn targetting. No great comfort for the targets but if vampire numbers were well up the SO / SA players would be extremely unhappy with all the incoming they attract too.

It's not as if anyone can say they've been repeatedly raped by the same briber. If you didn't get injuries you'd drop way out of his score. If you stay within his range he obviously hasn't bribed that many of your staff has he? Your score would drop dramatically and his would rise noticeably if he had. If you have been hit hard and you're still in his range then he attacked you at a higher score level, is very good at what he's doing and you should try learning from it in the first instance. Admittedly the last suggestion seems to be going out of fashion.

Am I biased? Quite possibly. I'm playing puppets, I mostly attack at 40-45%. Primarily because of the eta penalties. I knowingly took losses when I started bribing to avoid having to drop to 30%. I sometimes still do lose out. A loss I felt was worth it, or a chance I took because no-one had presented themselves as a ripe target in my range. It'll take awhile for me to bribe the mobile defensive units I need to be able to work more efficiently. My bribe damage is around the 40% mark of total kill & bribe damage. My kills & bribes received pretty much equals that which I have afflicted. Of that a negligible amount is bribe damage.

Given that at my attack range my injury rate is about 20% and my targets must be about ... 60%? I don't see a massive imbalance. Now whilst I would in no way claim to be the 'uber william86' briber version. I'm not bad. I think I can claim to be better than your average briber.

Yes, the numbers above will change as I start to acquire the set-up I want. I'm unlikely to bribe much more on an attack, but I will lose less. The point is it takes time to get yourself a set-up to be efficient with.

If you really want to reduce bribes because it sounds nice and balanced to match LET's. How about beefing up the toughness of the bribers so that they are capable of lasting against a more equal oppponent?

However, I honestly think things are about right. It's still quite hard to get started, but it is certainly doable and that's the key.

I don't play to win, I got bored of kills and land. I missed the bounty hunting glory days. I play to achieve minor goals such as no. 1 briber. Don't nerf my game and condemn bribing back to the sidelines because theory sounds nice. :(

[Nonny]

What may be a simple solution has just occurred to me.

*If* it's deemed unfair that victims of bribers don't get injuries on their bribed units, increase the overall injury rate for killed units on a raid?

Extra units won't be magically appearing.

Those with a lop-sided set-up will still lose more to bribes, but that's part of the game. Learn or die.

Decent set-ups, which lose no more than half their units to bribes, (they're the unlucky ones!), will get a greater percentage of killed units back thereby minimising the perceived imbalance.

If we're looking for in-game flavour reasoning it can be thus. "Bribe armies try not to damage potential targets therefore there are less fatalities."

[kyx]

Weakening SA and TL is small, but changing bribing altogether is a big thing.

Basically, lets just say that everyone who doesnt use bribers supports the bribecap idea and everyone who uses them dont.

The best solution is give people money for getting bribed, like the old insurance system.

If money is given according to the injury rate, then bribing will be just like killing for the victim.

[CLem]

Basically, lets just say that everyone who doesnt use bribers supports the bribecap idea and everyone who uses them dont.

The best solution is give people money for getting bribed, like the old insurance system.

If money is given according to the injury rate, then bribing will be just like killing for the victim.

I can so change the first statement to "Basically, lets just say that everyone who never used bribers or are solos with crap solo routes or setups whine about them being butt raped by possibly one of the weakest routes and everyone who look at it from a neutral perspective or had experience using them see it clearly will make it an obsolete route again.

Just for your information, I am not playing puppets/hypno or in fact any route this round;)

Giving insurance according to injury rate will mean that it is BETTER imo, to be attacked by a briber route since you can buy back what ever you want instead of what is lost and can be bought the tick after you get killed much better than injury if you are active!

Land is much easier to gain than troops, place a cap on bribes similar to land will be detrimental to all bribing routes.

[kyx]

Yea.. Not this round, but you have used them before.

Not everyone can get a good alliance that can protect you all the time. Most alliances are so useless that solo is better.

They may be said to be the weakest route, but any noob can inflict more damage than he takes on someone 40% of his size, except in rare expections, like if the smaller player uses bunkers and turrets.

[bobybobbob]

nah poop suggestion, as a briber this would sucks as often its impossible to find a target 80% of your score and bribable... how about just bring l/f back aswell as everything new.... least then i might get some rushes on me. :P As the route has no decent let flak and puppets are so expensive and you need a good amount to get any at all...this would just suck.