Acre Startup Suggestion:

[Sekishi]

This Suggestion is more focused a little forward in time Perhaps for the next age:

Currently All players need to arrange everything on the startup for themself, what acres to buy, seeds, troops etc. For brand new players this can be very confusing, and the quality of the start for each player differs greatly. What id like to suggest is that When you Signup you get a Choice of "Startup Method":

"Custom:" Is just like today. Recomended for more experienced users where you decide how many of each unit etc you buy for yourself. You however just start with the Empty acres and Funds. Even gards you need to buy on your own you start with 0 troops.

Acre Based startup: You start with no funds but a Rather well made up Harvester/Gardener ratio depending on what type of acre you choosed. You will get some plants aswell of the type but you get 0 starting funds but everything is "ready for you to start" say you cant be there for the first tick choosing this method would ensure you more incomme then custom would overall. However your Ratio's aint perfect. say you normaly only need 42 Harvestors pr Tree Acre to be safe at night. If you choose tree you get 48 which is higher and less effective but overall you do not lose out to much compared to not knowing. Ofcourse there will be guides made on Forums or other places for Custom users which could get those "perfect ratio's" but overall for the normal player it would be easier to choose this method.


PS: Ofcourse to this to work the Effectivity of Flowers and Grass pr harvestor ratio needs to be changed. Aswell the game would need to start "early houers of the morning" instead of the current starting time to give more time for Grass and Flower to be effective before the first night.

[Garrett]

don't like it. well lemme rephrase... it looks good paper, but no it won't work imo


starting out with full acres and harvs/gards? even if you don't make it 100% efficient... do you know how easily the above average and better starters would be able to make corrections and really start raking in the income faster/earlier?

if you were to make it an inefficient setup so much as to even out the effect to prevent abuse, then you would be teaching newbies bad habits and ratios and possibly hinder their round start even further.

besides.... a way to make full funds if you aren't logged in for the first tick? no way jose.

[Augustus]

Garrett is right, its too abusable. If you really want to help speed up the learning process a tutorial is the best way forward. Either one that works ingame, during an actual round or a 2-3 day isolated tutorial. I think the ingame option would work best as newcomers would become accustomed to World 1 a lot quicker. By no means should beginners have any financial or game advantage as this would encourage experienced players to pose as noobs.

[pinpower]

Just couldnt happen...in any age

Not going to go into detail as garrett has pretty much hit the nail on the head...

[f0xx]

As Garret said, dont teach newbies bad habits... if you want them to learn let them learn the universal way - The way of errors.

[Sekishi]

Ill be frank. Has the Inteligence level of players droped this much since i quit ? Seriusly in what form is this abusable at all ? First: You get basicly A set amount of Harvestors/Gardeners/Plants/Seeds for the Acre type you want to use for the price that you start with 0 Funds. To new players this would be 100times better then now when one signs up clueless with 0 Acres initiated, 50 Starting Gards and Harves and have to figure out everything for the first time. New players DONT go read up on forums, new players DONT go to a manual or a written toturial the first time they try anything. Well the large majority does not. Most players would only use the "Set" ones the first round they play. Second time around they will have figured out there is better methods. And this could even be solved by adding "Not Optimal Ratio's But recomended for Beginners".

Dont teach newbies bad habits.. Hell how long would this "Bad Habit last?" The first few times they either get taken into an alliance or goes to the forums they will see the better ratio's fast enough either in help or somewhere else. During mid round they would already have figured out better ratio's then they already have. All it would do would be to help out the very first time you play the game by actualy having things placed for you. Hell it aint worse then you add a New Startup page you lead new players to instead of overview on the first time they play where you post up a Few Recomended Tips: Go to the forums and look up this topic: ...... it will explain better Harvestor/Gardener ratio for future. But to make it easier your first few days we recomend ....._ There are alot of good points and not even a singel REAL bad point has been listed so far. Newbies DONT know ratio's at all before. They go on not having enough night harvestors etc at all for days before they catch on. Think people THINK it should be natural. And Garrett, i NEVER said full acres etc. I'll explain again.

Today you start with: 250k Funds, 5 Acres, 10 Of each seed and 5 of each plant. Pluss 50 Gards and Harves and some basics and wheelies. But all of your starting acres are set to uncultivated. Meaning if your clueless it will take a good while to even get started. But with the new startup option you could for instance start with:

0 Funds:
2 Acres set to Bush, 3 Acres set to Grass, 100 Gards, 50 Harvestors, Several Bush and Grass Plants. All they need to do is go to Matience and they could "be started" for the first time. With a "Startup Page" that explains: you need about so so many harvestors etc pr type etc. You would basicly create a startup tutorial in itself. And here you start saying a ingame tutorial is what you want. Hell this alone would teach a new player through the start.

[f0xx]

Well sordes, if we continue the same way as you want, we may aswell have a button to make a SO ratio that is strong against Robots for example, or a ratio that is made to stop masses of flak?

I hope you get where I am comming from...

[Garrett]

Ill be frank. Has the Inteligence level of players droped this much since i quit ? Seriusly in what form is this abusable at all ? First: You get basicly A set amount of Harvestors/Gardeners/Plants/Seeds for the Acre type you want to use for the price that you start with 0 Funds. To new players this would be 100times better then now when one signs up clueless with 0 Acres initiated, 50 Starting Gards and Harves and have to figure out everything for the first time. New players DONT go read up on forums, new players DONT go to a manual or a written toturial the first time they try anything. Well the large majority does not. Most players would only use the "Set" ones the first round they play. Second time around they will have figured out there is better methods. And this could even be solved by adding "Not Optimal Ratio's But recomended for Beginners".

Dont teach newbies bad habits.. Hell how long would this "Bad Habit last?" The first few times they either get taken into an alliance or goes to the forums they will see the better ratio's fast enough either in help or somewhere else. During mid round they would already have figured out better ratio's then they already have. All it would do would be to help out the very first time you play the game by actualy having things placed for you. Hell it aint worse then you add a New Startup page you lead new players to instead of overview on the first time they play where you post up a Few Recomended Tips: Go to the forums and look up this topic: ...... it will explain better Harvestor/Gardener ratio for future. But to make it easier your first few days we recomend ....._ There are alot of good points and not even a singel REAL bad point has been listed so far. Newbies DONT know ratio's at all before. They go on not having enough night harvestors etc at all for days before they catch on. Think people THINK it should be natural. And Garrett, i NEVER said full acres etc. I'll explain again.

Today you start with: 250k Funds, 5 Acres, 10 Of each seed and 5 of each plant. Pluss 50 Gards and Harves and some basics and wheelies. But all of your starting acres are set to uncultivated. Meaning if your clueless it will take a good while to even get started. But with the new startup option you could for instance start with:

0 Funds:
2 Acres set to Bush, 3 Acres set to Grass, 100 Gards, 50 Harvestors, Several Bush and Grass Plants. All they need to do is go to Matience and they could "be started" for the first time. With a "Startup Page" that explains: you need about so so many harvestors etc pr type etc. You would basicly create a startup tutorial in itself. And here you start saying a ingame tutorial is what you want. Hell this alone would teach a new player through the start.

it takes 1k harvs to do full nighttime production for 1 acre of grass if I recall correctly.

speaking of newbies - how many would go - "i'm not keeping up with other people, the game recommended this easy setup... this sucks... outtie"


honestly if people won't reach out for help/read/etc - then they probably aren't that good at strategy anyway and wouldn't stay no matter how many times you wiped their ass.

I still say no. You are out thinking yourself again. Obscurity is your best suit.

If anything, the playertips section of the manual along with getting started is best.

[Sekishi]

Player tips in Manual etc is pretty much useless. The games problem aint holding onto the players that has been trying the game for a week or two. Its keaping players the first 10 Houers they try the game. Players dont figure out what to do or spend to much. The game takes to long to get STARTED. And ive already said this suggestion is useless unless you Improve Flower and Grass Ratio pr Harvester and Gardener needed. So please asume this is done aswell when commenting on this.

It takes about 12 Houers before you start attacking in this game for the first time. That is if you play it properly also. Most players dont attack before closer to a day has gone by. This makes many players who even if they like a action based fast game not stay around. because it takes to much time to get things started. It takes to much time to learn things and people i repeat DO NOT READ GAME MANUALS ETC THE FIRST TIME THEY PLAY. They try it out and want to figure out things on their own. Hell for any player who has played this game before this Suggestion wouldent affect them at all. But for new players trying for the first time would save them about 2 Houers worth of tinkering around, it would show them a decent first few ticks. And even if they should go offline the game would produce a "Decent incomme" compared if they spend all their funds on new acres giving them 7 and not any seeds or plants at all. It would help teach new players to get started. I cant even see the reason to complain about this AT ALL.

[Garrett]

When people make suggestions, they want it to work. They want to see it implemented. It's not surprising you don't see a reason to complain about it. It's YOURS, you've come to the logical conclusion that this is the best way, or at least a very good way with no holes in it.

That's why there is this forum. So people can post their views. Azzer reads the thread. Takes what he wants if he wants anything at all. Just because you don't see a reason why to complain doesn't make your suggestion correct or incorrect. People are going to post their views.

My view - I don't like it. Complaining about peoples intelligences is hardly the way to go about convincing them. It's find to bring up counter points and there will be times that technically/mechanically there are no faults with what you are suggesting... but then it comes down to feelings... feelings are apart of gameplay... if players feel that this isn't a good move then there is hardly any reasoning or logic that will overcome that.

Sometimes somethings just don't feel right. There are still technical points that I don't agree with in your suggestion and I don't feel it's the right move, at least at this time.

You can accept that or not. That will hardly matter as well. Take heart, maybe some people will agree and make you feel better. Should this be implemented then your suggestion was taken and you can feel good about that. You are never going to convince 100% of the people. There will ALWAYS be dissenters.

[Rosa]

I cant even see the reason to complain about this AT ALL.

It's like you said, there is absolutely nothing wrong with your suggestion (or so I think.) However there's also absolutely nothing wrong with the starting system that's here today. Why add another layer of complexity to the game when it's not needed?

[Sekishi]

When people make suggestions, they want it to work. They want to see it implemented. It's not surprising you don't see a reason to complain about it. It's YOURS, you've come to the logical conclusion that this is the best way, or at least a very good way with no holes in it.

That's why there is this forum. So people can post their views. Azzer reads the thread. Takes what he wants if he wants anything at all. Just because you don't see a reason why to complain doesn't make your suggestion correct or incorrect. People are going to post their views.

My view - I don't like it. Complaining about peoples intelligences is hardly the way to go about convincing them. It's find to bring up counter points and there will be times that technically/mechanically there are no faults with what you are suggesting... but then it comes down to feelings... feelings are apart of gameplay... if players feel that this isn't a good move then there is hardly any reasoning or logic that will overcome that.

Sometimes somethings just don't feel right. There are still technical points that I don't agree with in your suggestion and I don't feel it's the right move, at least at this time.

You can accept that or not. That will hardly matter as well. Take heart, maybe some people will agree and make you feel better. Should this be implemented then your suggestion was taken and you can feel good about that. You are never going to convince 100% of the people. There will ALWAYS be dissenters.


There you said it accuratly. And sorry to say but people around these forums has becomme alot more stupid over the years and thats not a feeling its a fact. People goes purly by their own desires like Pinpower. Suggestions board is not just about feelings or technical issues. Its about "Could this work or not, could this be usefull for the game or not. Could this be fun or not". Regardless if ONESELF dont like it one need to give constructive feedback. People that cant give that shouldent be posting replies in the suggestion board in the first place because their comments for the most part is useless. Your comments there in the last reply was constructive hense usefull. While replies like the ones from pinpower is completly useless other then bash and while it wont really effect me ever because honestly ive had more suggestions shot down and posted more over my years then any other player so im quite used to this. And its on this base on the quality of the replies people post that i base my comment that people are becomming more stupid.

Rosa thanks for the first "Positive" response and thank you for giving me a chance to explain further. There wont be a other layer at all with this suggestion. Actualy if anything there will be 1 less. The new option comes up when you want to Create a new ID in World 1. Custom is Standard, which would be just like today. If anything one dont need to have the 4 Different acre options but instead have 1 Finished Secondary option (Recomended for Beginners) that could be tied with a ingame tutorial or simular with "You get a Well made Ingame Mail that will explain a few ingame steps" The process of slow growth and how to make money in the game. Once you have been online XX amount of ticks you get a Second mail that could give information about Attacking and Devoloping. Then after XX more ticks you get one telling about Alliances, Solo and Recomending one take a insight in the community: Forums, IRC and perhaps go take a look at the Manual if one wants more information. Some "Helpfull tips like Better ratio's for your Harvestors / pr acre type can be found there aswell." Doing things this way you lure people over to the Manual instead of expecting people to go there themself. So in the end there wouldent be a new layer. But perhaps instead a good step for the first parts of a ingame tutorial that wouldent be hard to make at all.

[Augustus]

I agree with you that the first few hours arent very rewarding for begginers. I know that I almost stopped playing after the 1st hour as it seemed very dull. But getting people started would be more effectively accomplished by an in-game tutorial than what you have suggested. That way begginers are introduced into the same scenario as everyone else. All they need is a point in the general direction rather than being spoon fed their way through the game.

here's an example:

'you need to cultivate your acres! Go to land management! Remember each plant type has different attributes that vary throughout the year'

'You need to plant your seeds and plants! Go to maintanance! Remember the amount of plants you get back depends on the weather conditions'

'You need to buy more land...'

'You need to buy more harvesters...'

All of these tips could come in the form of on screen messages, tool tips or private messages. It would be far better than what you suggest as it would still leave the begginer to experiment with land types, ratios, etc, which is half the fun of the game.

[Enrico]

I think Augustus idea is much more viable!

First time you sign up you get the "tutor" as standard (but disableable)

The tutor will send you ingame mails explaining things like harvesters/gardeners, cultivating seeds into plants, planting, and selling. Buying staff, starting devs etc. The last point would be to help you send an attack on a "dedicated" tutorbot and steal a set amount of land (say 10 acres... if you send enough wheelies/geos) sure it would in infact be a "gift" of some free acres to all newcomers, but hey...

The tutorbot would have a set number of staff and acres, and 0% AR-mod, and would look similar to all new players, and not be visible to all who have not tutor-option on.

The tutor would take you through the basics, and after say the first 4 days you would be set to go... As long as you have tutoring on, you cannot be attacked, but not attack others than the tutorbot.

[Sekishi]

Chewie shut up. Replies like that should get you banned from Suggestion Board because its completly useless. Augustus however nice reply, now things are going somewhere. Like most people forget Suggestions also cause discussion, Debate, Flame wars (negative side effect i will admit) and other forms for "intense communication" and sharing of opinions. Im quite used to getting suggestions shut down, but watching the debates that come from them is quite entertaining and sometime usefull. So Augustus, if i then now said:

It sounds very good in theory and all. But it wont help because it stil takes way to many houers before the game gets interesting (Roughly 8 Houers of Normal play before First Attack - If you know what your doing. For a First Timer perhaps 12/15 Houers) This is the timeframe that needs to be shorted down ALOT in order to make it more FUN to start the game. And people say "If they aint willing to look up help etc" they aint usefull as members either. BULLSHIT, ANY new member who tries Bushtarion more then 3 or 4 Days for the first time usualy get Addicted, overall ITS THAT FUN OF A GAME once however you get started. And anyone who tries something fun usualy wants to either get better, tell others about the game which again might lead to someone who will be REAL usefull for the game in terms of say a skillfull player or perhaps a leader in the future. What would you Also do to make it so a much larger % of first time tryers are willing to actualy stay those 3 or 4 days thats usualy needed ? Speeding up the start is one thing. Ingame tutorials a other. Perhaps a mixture is needed if so what kind ? I hope you will stay and continue this debate and that others are willing to join in Constructivly also.

[Augustus]

Your point about it taking a while to get into the fun of the game is valid. My experiences of the first few hours were spending most of my time fumbling through the manual working out what I should do and when. By the time I was confident I had a basic grasp of the game, I was fit for bed. I think you forget that any new starter is unlikely to dedicate more than three hours in their 1st sitting. To solve the problem you say this creates you would have to create such a radically different environment it wouldn't accurately represent the World 1 we are all used to. Now the only realistic solution I can think of is a simulation tutorial. This would guide begginners through all the crucial stages of the game, but at the same time skip the parts where you have to wait to build up income. This would serve as a 'carrot on a stick' giving them a taste of what lies ahead in the game once they get past the initial building phase, as well as teaching them the basics of the game.

[DarkSider]

I have to agree with the point of the suggestion.
I started playing another game in the break week and in the first day i got pretty much the whole ideea of the game just by trial and error. Didn't even go to check the manual once.
The start of bushtarion it's complicated for a new player and also brings about no satisfaction. I like Augustus way of dealing with the problem a bit more than Sordes automate way. However i'll do my own suggestion:
Have a "newbie help" enabled by default.
If you have this on you get noticed in some form (preferably written with big red colours on overview) that you have too few harvesters or you are advised to plant now but check the weather, your current gards can only plant maximum x seeds etc.
Also, to keep it fun for them they get some sort of temporary bots on which they get advised to send 500 wheelies and some gards and they'll get the ideea with attacking while taking some 1-4 acre grabs (too small to give much of an advantage for having the help on while not beeing a newbie). Maybe a graphical representation of the first battle so they understand the concept of flaking and how the battle is done (range, mid tick and close). You have to take their eyes a bit more in their first hours so they give a chance to the game because i'm sure plenty get anoyed they don't know what they need to do right after registering an account. To go to the manual and read all that you have to be convinced it's worth the effort imo. If i register for a game and first impression isn't good i won't bother to read manual/forums and just move on.

[Sekishi]

And thanks for 2 other good replies from Darksider and Augustus. Lets see if we can expand on this whole idea some more that you both mention then. First in order to speed up the game more there is 1 very easy way that would not need much time AT ALL to change that would make the game faster. That is:

Instead of 5 Starting Acres, you have 25 or 50. Instead of getting the 10 Free seeds you would get 200, Instead of 50 Gards you would have 2000, instead of 50 Harvestors you have 4000. But you dont start with Wheelies. But its a very cheap devolopment costing say 20Million, which would make it a very good devolopment to "teach devolopment" with in the tutorial. And your starting funds are 2.5mill and not 250k.

Lets say When you Register a new ID: You get the Option
Tutorial Mode:
Custom Mode:

Tutorial Mode would offer that Ingame Tutorial people would want. But it would also offer a "easier start" Say you get a Set amount of funds. A set amount of Planted acres, plants etc sorted around. Along with this You get a mail saying: Welcome to Bushtarion Tutorial mode... bla bla bla. This will give you a quick introduction in the basics of the game. It tells you first to go to take a good look at the Overview and with a Visual/Link to a (Image in the new wiki recomended) in order to explain what each grouping is. And what shows there. The second mail, showing after you have visited 5 Pages tells you "Ready to get started ?" First - Go to Land Management, again with a link with a visual represnation. "Here you can see that 5 of your Acres stil isent in use. In order to get them in use you ...." Following the same path all the way intil they have gone over: Planting, Setting acres, buying some troops etc. Darksider's idea of having: "Around 250 More harvestors are needed" for instance in the Maintance page to show that your either short or should buy some more of either Gards or harvs. When you have been "here" for 12 Ticks you get a other mail about "Ready for a little more information ? By now you should have gotten alot of seeds planted and perhaps got some nice money, now its time to get some more Acres and increase your incomme some more" Teach them this then again when they reach 20 Million Funds they get a other mail descibing Devolopment. And after its done you get a pm with a "Ok now we can practice attacking." Have the game create a Tutorial bot that allows you to steal 10 Acres and you can hit it up to 4 times a total of 40 stolen acres. Tell the guy how many acres needed. After those 4 runs take a other mail with a little more difficult target. Overall this can be made into a automated process to show the new players over say a 5-10 Houer period about the game. And it starts at their own pace and the Tutorial "looks for" elements say: So many ticks online, reached so much funds etc. Giving "Help" how to get started fairly easily.


Custom Mode: Basicly just a new version of what we have today. Many more Uncultivated acres, more funds etc. Basicly just a way of increasing the base starting speed of the game.


Is there any views on this ? or perhaps some alternatives ?

[Garrett]

And thanks for 2 other good replies from Darksider and Augustus. Lets see if we can expand on this whole idea some more that you both mention then. First in order to speed up the game more there is 1 very easy way that would not need much time AT ALL to change that would make the game faster. That is:

Instead of 5 Starting Acres, you have 25 or 50. Instead of getting the 10 Free seeds you would get 200, Instead of 50 Gards you would have 2000, instead of 50 Harvestors you have 4000. But you dont start with Wheelies. But its a very cheap devolopment costing say 20Million, which would make it a very good devolopment to "teach devolopment" with in the tutorial. And your starting funds are 2.5mill and not 250k.

Lets say When you Register a new ID: You get the Option
Tutorial Mode:
Custom Mode:

Tutorial Mode would offer that Ingame Tutorial people would want. But it would also offer a "easier start" Say you get a Set amount of funds. A set amount of Planted acres, plants etc sorted around. Along with this You get a mail saying: Welcome to Bushtarion Tutorial mode... bla bla bla. This will give you a quick introduction in the basics of the game. It tells you first to go to take a good look at the Overview and with a Visual/Link to a (Image in the new wiki recomended) in order to explain what each grouping is. And what shows there. The second mail, showing after you have visited 5 Pages tells you "Ready to get started ?" First - Go to Land Management, again with a link with a visual represnation. "Here you can see that 5 of your Acres stil isent in use. In order to get them in use you ...." Following the same path all the way intil they have gone over: Planting, Setting acres, buying some troops etc. Darksider's idea of having: "Around 250 More harvestors are needed" for instance in the Maintance page to show that your either short or should buy some more of either Gards or harvs. When you have been "here" for 12 Ticks you get a other mail about "Ready for a little more information ? By now you should have gotten alot of seeds planted and perhaps got some nice money, now its time to get some more Acres and increase your incomme some more" Teach them this then again when they reach 20 Million Funds they get a other mail descibing Devolopment. And after its done you get a pm with a "Ok now we can practice attacking." Have the game create a Tutorial bot that allows you to steal 10 Acres and you can hit it up to 4 times a total of 40 stolen acres. Tell the guy how many acres needed. After those 4 runs take a other mail with a little more difficult target. Overall this can be made into a automated process to show the new players over say a 5-10 Houer period about the game. And it starts at their own pace and the Tutorial "looks for" elements say: So many ticks online, reached so much funds etc. Giving "Help" how to get started fairly easily.


Custom Mode: Basicly just a new version of what we have today. Many more Uncultivated acres, more funds etc. Basicly just a way of increasing the base starting speed of the game.


Is there any views on this ? or perhaps some alternatives ?

I can't agree with speeding up the game. While needing to attract more people and maybe making round start more rewarding... you are going to have the average+ starters getting bigger, quicker. I cannot agree with more acres, harvs, gards. If this is only in a tutorial world maybe, but your wording makes it sound as though tutorial mode will be with round start. definitely can't agree with implementing it in world 1. Doing anything to slow it down or make it inefficient is teaching bad habits.


(apologies to augustus and darksider if they mentioned this in the thread) - rather than anything you have mentioned about getting an easy start up or acre automation or funds or any of that (because basically I will never agree at this point. Have not seen any compelling arguments or reasons to change my view.)


Instead of a whole new world for tutorials, instead of acre setups as to me it is a very bad idea as those people who don't read, won't think that there is really a different way of doing it... if you post warnings they won't read them based on your arguements...

How about this:

You sign up for a new world 1 account and it's at any point before the round start... this period is your 'tutorial period' you can sign into 'tutorial mode' and for your account the 'world' 'ticks'. You can set up acres however you want, but it's still the same old setup of today. It ticks and you can see how you progressed. If you found that you put all 5 into grass, it was a very bad idea because you could not get full production for hours. Then just like all statistics and such, your account resets and you play the game with the same start as everyone else. This way you can still incorporate tool tips, messages, etc whatever else has been suggested about tutorials


An automatic acre startup removes some very vital 'why must I do this, this way?' which would be key. newbies wouldn't understand why others start out so much better, get discouraged and leave. can't agree with startup.

[Sekishi]

Again your asuming that every new player needs to be a person that is willing to spend the time trying out everything on their own in that way. It also stil doesent change the fact you need to wait a long time to get started again when the world first starts to tick. Your idea just aint usable in that sense because your target group is extremly limited in comparison to whats already written here.

[Augustus]

Sekishi although I agree with your viewpoint on beginners needing guidance in the early stages of the game, I categorically oppose any changes to the game mechanics purely for the sake of beginners. I believe the solution lies in an in-game tutorial or a simulation that skips the points you have to wait to raise funds, until all the basics are learnt. You are destined to meet opposition when suggesting game mechanics should be changed. Whereas my suggestions are benine and have no logical reason for not being implemented....other than Azzer cba with all that coding :P

[DR4545]

Also, to keep it fun for them they get some sort of temporary bots on which they get advised to send 500 wheelies and some gards and they'll get the ideea with attacking while taking some 1-4 acre grabs (too small to give much of an advantage for having the help on while not beeing a newbie).
I pretty much agree with your post other than this. There shouldn't be any advantage whatsoever given to any mode of the game. Tooltips with how much your gardeners/harvesters can handle would be cool. And, maybe tooltips by your acres saying how many harvesters are required for day/night.

Practice attacks are great for a tutorial, but not world 1.

I don't like the idea of any advantage given to anyone. And, I also don't like the idea of completely running a beginner's startup strategy tick by tick for them. Maybe it's my attitude, that I like the process of figuring out a game. That element of a learning process is part of the fun for me. What is frustrating for people is not having access to information they need. (I don't think this is an issue right now, but that's where I stand.)

Some people have mentioned you should/should not be penalized less for not being on the first tick. To me, it makes sense to make it so you don't get as shafted for not being on the first few ticks (or hours) as you are right now. I don't know if there's any way to make it so people who weren't on the first few ticks of the round can catch up a bit better while still being reasonable, but it would seem nice to me.

I think most people have noticed that when recruiting "will you be on the first tick" is a major selling point.

[Sekishi]

Augustus most of the time that statement is correct, and it have applied to Bushtarion also for a very long time. However now the game is in a Declining state, it actualy needs to consider Beginners/First time signups far far far far far more important then it has today. If even the change only leads to 5 staying more then without the game needs new players so much its worth it. The reason for this is that because of most that play have been around for sutch a long time that they already have invited most of their friends to try the game. The game cant relay on Mouth to Mouth advertising much anymore because overall its getting depleted. And adapting the "First Day" of the game to be far more beginner friendly and not with just a tutorial or just manuals etc, it wont be enough because Bushtarion has sutch a special enjoyment curve. The first time you start bushtarion you currently get almost no clues at all, its different from games like Dawn of Myth, Planetarion etc in a complete way so past experiences in other games dont help you much in Bushtarion as a beginner.

However once you learn the game and get started, which usualy unless your a "Start Fanatic" like most of the top fighters in the game the true enjoyment for those start around Day 3 of the game. This time frame for First Time Players is the most vital to improve. So sad to say even for my own part since im usualy here at each start because its something that always happends on weekends, and if its just a few days i can play as much i want without worrying about my health. But if losing this feature and in return to some degree honestly it wont change things much other then that everyone will start devoloping and attacking sooner. Basicly you reach the stage you would get in about a Day within a few houers. Which means the 3 Day Period of before will get reduced to about a Day. This means that its much faster to get started which means more players will actualy get to experience the "Entertaining part" of Bushtarion which many feel is the ability to get things done in a short time period. Even if im overall contradicting myself for having posting the tick change suggestion and posting this but that thread is more to cause debate for a better alternative and this to get a better start and the targeting groups are a little different. But For each well Suggestion that the Community can devolop and create together the bigger chance that the game will continue to be entertaining for its players for the future.

[Podunk]

Ok I've read bits and pieces of whats been posted here as this is quite a bit to take in when first looking at the topic...
^ Right here explains what bushtarion is to a first time user. Its vast and somewhat complex, with lots of steps to get your company started and to get going. Though I don't think automating the start will help a newcomer learn how the game is played, so a simple step by step guide is needed. I for one need to do something a few times in order to learn what is needed to do, and I'm sure thats the case with many of you, the "hands on types". Directions that appear on screen as Augustus has suggested I think would be one of the better ways to approach the startup method.

Maybe with those starting acres show a list of what makes the type of acre a good or bad choice like:
Current Season: Spring
Tree - Requires less harvesters than the other acres, but produces less income during spring and summer
Bush - Requires a moderate amount of harvesters and produces the same amount of income during every season
Flower - Requires a high amount of harvesters and produces a high amount of income during summer but poorly during other seasons
Grass - Requires a very high amount of harvesters and produces a high amount of income during spring but poorly during other seasons

Then a generalized statement, most bushtarion players choose a mix of tree and bush for these acres because.... blah blah blah you get the idea

And then the onscreen directions that tell you what you should do with these acres, plant your plants in them, get more plants by growing seeds or buying plants to fill the acres up, and then finally making profit by growing seeds and selling the plants.

[pinpower]

People goes purly by their own desires like Pinpower

lol, your funny sordes...it has nothing to do with my own "desires", especially as im leaving the game for good after this round (and i do actually HAVE to leave so i will ;))
All my replies (apart from the one commenting on how badly you got burnt..hehe) have been from a objection pov...like i said in the other thread your suggestions are very well worded but you just havnt thought anything through...

And thanks for 2 other good replies from Darksider and Augustus

am i the only one that thinks its funny that you only think "good replies" are ones that agree with you...and dont tell you what your common sense should of that this is a bad suggestion..


tbh sordes, your beginning to sound desperate...its your suggestion so obviously agree with it...but you cant even accept when others tell you how wrong you are...
there is a saying involving a baby and a pram which is very relevant here but i cant remember the exact wording...;)

[Sekishi]

Wrong: I couldent care less about the Suggestion infact. The thruth is that Creating Bushtarion Suggestion's is just one of my more favorite timeconsumers when i have nothing to do. And since im stil uncapable of playing seriusly due to my health really i dont care to much because it will be to long before i can return properly for it to really effect me much.
The thruth is that the good replies. Are the constructive ones, they agree currently with the point of the suggestion but none of them agree with MY suggestion. Hense they dont agree with me but agree on a problem.

The replies are also good because their constructive. Most other replies like the one you just posted is full of completly useless material that does not help to further the thread at all. Almost every one that replies aims to just get a post in, increase their post count and try to "Kill a thread" as soon as possible. Azzer is very slow in terms of making changes so 99% of Suggestions made are overlooked. But he tends to read them all, thats why creative and constructive discussions is important in Suggestions Forum, im just calling you replies and most others bad because their unconstructive and does not further the debate about things that can be done to improve. The game has problems that needs to be fixed for it to survive in the longer term. Most players that are already familier with the game wouldent like some changes that would help new players because it removes some of the amusement for them, thats what i call bad constructive replies, because people aint able to look from it as you stated constructive and from a nuteral standpoint. And desperate ? Ive had probably over 200 Suggestions shut down over my time playing, probably even more then that also. 1 or 2 more wont make a single differance.

[Bobbin]

Starting to get a bit derailed guys... lets not eh?

[Garrett]

I'm all for the lock cuz it's not going to go anywhere good.


cuz obviously the only reason the game is perceived to be in a 'declining state' is because zomg it's too hard and all these wonderful suggestions haven't been implemented.

it has nothing to do with graphical games and the ease in which they are accessible....


can't wait for the new suggestion... the new 70 day account and you only have to play the last 5-6 days.

Text based only stuff is only going to survive for so long. It's only ever really going to get a certain niche of players. But naaaaah that has nothing to do with what's going on...

[rooney]

how about a short tutorial in a wolrd with only bots, and instead of waiting for 10minutes u click abutton to make it tick. this would speed up the game lots so begginners wouldnt have to wait 10minutes just to see they screwed up, and it wouldnt take another 10min. to rectify that mistake.

obviously this world would need ingame mails helping them through the stages like was suggested b4.

[Cheese]

Sordes go back to where you came from.
Your suggestions were crap before you left and they are just getting worse.

[Melnibone]

Hehe come on people we dont need another cheese/sordes mutual hate club cant you boys play nice

[Cheese]

Hehe come on people we dont need another cheese/sordes mutual hate club cant you boys play nice

True :p
I'm starting up the Melni hate club instead :P

[Melnibone]

Hehe you'll have plenty of members

Sorry for spamming the suggestion :oops:

[willymchilybily]

Lol. imo if some one new is not able to work out how the game works after the first round, he is never going to get into it or play it. automating it and doing everything for him will not change this. I think the game should be made as new player friendly as possible.

but that being said. when i started i looked at the gardeners, i looked at the harvesters. there were no wheelies back in the day. and yobs and hippys went by different names.

and haverster description and gardener description hasnt changed all that much. although most expereinced players hide the description, for ease of seeing numbers. newbs dont. they dont know how.

and being told your gardener plants seeds/plants and your harvesters havest seeds. imo makes it pretty damn obvious how it works. and when you look at world rankings and see the top spots are occupied by people with the most land, the way the system works falls into place. Aha! so thats how you win the game. land = money=score and troops

If your new and cant work that out for yourself within the first round, then your going to probably never grasp the more complex ideas of the game, and never play this game again.

and there is already an auto set up. its called 5 acres, to be distributed how you please. and 50 of the important units. how much more do you want to do. the only thing that i'd think is maybe it needs to be clearly explained that you have the acres but you need to set them asside to either grasss/flower/bush/tree.

as long as the newbie grasps that, the rest comes naturally. like the first time you send harvesters and gardeners on a flack attack and realise your not getting any more than 10 seeds from each land type, a tick. You realise whats going on. and why. the game is pretty self explanitory. that being said my friend made an account and he couldnt work out what was going on. he found it to confusing with all the links all doing different things. so i guess there are some people out thier that need things explained in detail to them. but no one needs some one to do it for them, not entirely. else your'll never learn

[Garrett]

I cast resurrection on this thread... oh wait... :P

[Sekishi]

Sorry for the long delay but just back from the hospital so been prevented to reply before now.

First Point: Garrett, stop spamming. If you got nothing usefull to say then just shut up. And Cheese, Hate you too, but our situation will never change and im not going to sink down to your level again so lets just continue to ignore each other. Works better that way.


Main Point: Ive stated it a few times and i see people just refuse to read whats been posted: The problem is NOT the ones that continue over a whole round. Those have already passed the harsh learning curve of the game. The entire "Topic" of this suggestion. The "Theme" if you like. Is to make more try that full round. And most players stop trying Bushtarion after a few houers of gameplay because quite frankly for a so fast game nothing happends for quite a long time. Bushtarion itself is a very addictive game once you really start to play it. The problem has been for a long time to many stop playing before they get to enter the addictive parts of Bushtarion. And for the sake of proving a point Garrett, lets just face it then. This suggestion wont happend, i welcome you now to make one that will make more players actualy stay the very first houers they try the game. There are so many Online games out there so "If this game isent fun to try, there are tones of others to try so ill just go on to the next one" and when others mention bushtarion to them later "No tried that, dident like it" happends quite often. So everyone please keep the topic on the issue: How to get more of the beginner players to get passed that first time growth face so they can get a chance to actualy interact with the game.

[Cheese]

And you suggestion is...