Ticker Change

[Sekishi]

The Basis of the Suggestion:
Bushtarion is a game that has an awfully high pace for a very long time period. 75 Days of very harsh compedative fighting of 10 Minute ticks. In a single night of 8 Houers of normal sleep you can end up being attacked 3 times. Same goes for your work houers. The game is played by all sorts of people and while mostly everyone can handle sutch nights once in a while overall its not something you can keap up a long time. And the reason the top Alliances is able to manage is mostly due to either students with full internett acess at school or workers that has a office job or constant acess to internett or the few that sits home with either sickness or simply is a homewife or simular. Those people have the advantage in this game to the extreme where Active players already got a major advantage with the normal 10 Minute ticks. In order to try to make the game a little more friendly towards everyone to keap people in the game more a change in how the Ticker system work is what i suggest.


Change the Ticker from 1 Ticker into 2:

Combat Ticker & Devolopment Ticker:
This ticker would update every 20Minutes. Basicly attacking would take twice the time it currently does. Yes Twice as much as it does now. A normal eta 5 attack would take 1 Houer and 40 Minutes to land on a target instead of 50 Minutes. This change would make it easier to either wake someone up, or increase the change you could get online to save your troops. However knowing this change would be very unpopular without some extra addon's it would never survive on its own. There comes the first step to make this work: Eta Return/Approach Upgrades. Add the following 2 Upgrades to devolopment: Eta Return time - 1, Eta Attack/Deffence time - 1. Its possible to take this even further by changing how Eta's is calculated in the game. Currently we have Stealth Eta and Normal Eta. It would be possible to change Normal eta into Approach Eta and Return Eta, some even with special condisions like: Geo Thieves, Attack Eta 5, Return eta 2*If you do not bring back any acers. Doing this a pure flak attack would be: 1 Houer and 40 Minutes attack. Possible 40 Minutes return, if your attack fails. To make this even more managable one could update Military officer's view of outgoing mobs to also view returning mobs. Doing this would overall make the Change possible even for the more active members. As for Devolopments by doubling the overall time there aswell it will stretch the round further. Some heavy Devolopments like Trex or Hypno's etc with already very high Devolopment eta's can be reduced to adapt to the change to not make it suffer to greatly.

Resource Ticker:
This ticker is halved. Every 5 Minutes you will gain some new Seeds, Or plant some new plants. This means for each 1 Combat tick you get 4 Resource ticks. This will bring alot more incomme in compared til today and as a hidden bonus because you get more "sunny tick time" resouces like Flower and Grass becommes alot more valuable then they are today. It gives the ones being attacked more incomme aswell to either save, spend or risk losing. Overall this change can be said to benefit those with alot of acres, but it also means that every 5 Minutes you can do something in the game. Which means even with the change in Combat ticker the active ones stil would have a big advantage, which overall is fair. The change can be argued that even when working you cant harvest all and then deliver it at the same time. Instead once a truck is full of seeds it will get transported, one dont lineup tones of trucks then send them all at the same time. To also help this suggestion some one should Improve the Ratio of Harvesters needed for each Flower/Grass acre.


Last Wish:
Please do not post simple and unusefull replies like this is useless or simply stupid. I do not mind critics to my suggestion but i would like for them to be constructive so that i can benefit from your views and improve my own ability to reason for possible future suggestions. Thank you for reading my suggestion and please discuss and reply based on the consept first and not the actual figures because they can be changed to adapt to ballance or possible other changes.

- Sekishi

[DarkSider]

I think first part has ups and downs. Currently we have fine tuned units on diferent eta's, diferent eta reveal with diferent purpose. The change you want will improve defence alot by giving defenders more time to organize and call ppl and reducing the effect of good offensive lethals on low eta.

Second part i don't like because it make land more valuable and i personally think the games where all you do is get bigger and bigger in size and that's all the game is about are so 90's :P I'd rather fighting have more importance than hoarding acres .. but that's me.

[IceOfFire]

I think first part has ups and downs. Currently we have fine tuned units on diferent eta's, diferent eta reveal with diferent purpose. The change you want will improve defence alot by giving defenders more time to organize and call ppl and reducing the effect of good offensive lethals on low eta.

Second part i don't like because it make land more valuable and i personally think the games where all you do is get bigger and bigger in size and that's all the game is about are so 90's :P I'd rather fighting have more importance than hoarding acres .. but that's me.


Indeed my little Romanian, i totally agree.

Why fix something if it isn't broken?

[pinpower]

no...no...and no

So you are saying that the minimum amount of time an attack (for land) will be 4 hours and 20 mins (1hr 40 to get there{eta 5}, 1hr attacking {3 attacking ticks} and then another 1hr 40 to get back {eta 5})

That is ridiculous.

Also...if an alliance has 1hr 40 mins to get the person being attacking online...its far to easy...

While they are annoying it means rushes will be virtually completely eliminated from the game (stealth rush showing up at eta 1 would give the alliance 40 mins to get the person being attacked online).

That means attacking an active/well contactable alliance would be nigh impossible without sending so much that it is irrelevant how many people they have online.


Just no...

[Alcibiades]

I agree with the anti posts as well.

The major reason i enjoy playing this game so much is that it *IS* fast paced. I hate all those other games that take like 5 days to get anything done (exaggeration, but call it poetic licence cuz i'm sexy).

I enjoy bushtarion because if i have a coupla hours free, i can launch an attack, maybe send some defence etc. Whereas i'd need oodles of time (i.e. a full day) to launch like 2 attacks. Bullshit. I like the fast paced game, and besides, despite all the crap that is associated with injuries, having at least some troops to come back to is wonderful and totally eliminates the sadness of being zeroed.

Sekishi: I don't know how long you've played, but i might have been inclined to agree with at least portions of your suggestion a round or two ago when once you were zeroed that was it. But now? Nah, there are enough failsafes in place to keep you alive-ish even if you aren't active 100%.

I was active about 5 hours a day this round, and was never ever fully zeroed even tho i got hammered by upwards of 30 mill strikers every few days (i was robo... :(). Anywho, there is no reason to lengthen the bloody game, my god i already get antsy when i have to wait 80 minutes for my attack to run through.

Fortunately I don't think we're in any danger of applying your changes.

But to give you some credit, you have a remarkably well thought out, well written and easily understandably suggestion, which is rare in these forums these days (myself included ;)). Unfortunately, I don't like the idea and i feel that the rest of the playerbase will feel the same.

That means attacking an active/well contactable alliance would be nigh impossible without sending so much that it is irrelevant how many people they have online.

And god knows after all the effort we (i.e. Azzer) has put into getting rid of bashing we sure as hell don't want it back now do we?!

[f0xx]

I agree with all the anti-posts as well... I (and azzer too) have played games in which we need like hundread hours to reach a target for the battle to actually happen... this is just so wrong and so not bushtarion...

[edit] And before you say I am exagerrating things, I will tell you that the current speed of the game is perhaps the most optimal speed.

[willymchilybily]

sorry to say i see where your coming from but it wont work.

1).first of all the player base likes the faster pace

2). any changes you suggest in addition to the time changing is changing the game dynamics. because you have simply reduced certian times respectively of others. but still managed to lengthen the game

3)land ticks mean that 1 battle tick (20 mins)=4 growing ticks. land produces 4 times as much relative to the attack time. thats enough to give the defence a miniscule advantage because they can buy up with 4 times as much as they could have previously in the time it takes you to arrive. 20 growing ticks as apose to the previous 5.

[Sekishi]

Its quite amusing reading these responses. Some of you know who i am, some does not. Well since no one speaks to me on msn anymore its not a surprise others dont know this is the nick i use everywhere these days. Bushtarion was the last place i used my oldest one because of the forums but the new forum changed that. But for the record: I was around 15 Play Rounds and ive been lingering forums ever since i stoped playing active due to my health. I guess thats enough hints for those that do not know me, since i really wont be posting so much so its not important to know. But it does show how much a name waighs to a post.

As for the things mentioned so far:
Correct the game currently has a "rather decent" ballance thats far from perfect but overall works because not much changes so players get used to the overall power ratio's against each other and adapt. No matter what usualy change this has been done for ages in this game with the introduction of new things etc. However the game has been without a "Gameplay patch with new content" for a very long time and the game is going down. Its not the time for change yet but the game does need a "Full new Age" if its going to survive in the comming years. Players grow older, the game's very intense which makes it harder to continue then most other games. For players who has constant acess Bushtarion is like a dream, you can play and do things all the time however, the pressure this game puts on one to play seriously is quite intense and the amount of players capable of doing this isent that many.

So this suggestion would more be a "Tryout System" before a possible new age to see how things would work. In a new age, which i count as a more remake of routes/gameplay to the degree it once more feel's fresh. In sutch an event ETA reballance would be easy, and now its not hard to even adapt this change currently just asign it to a few slow units like Geo's if you dont steal their same eta as Gardeners home, that would make things very simular to what they are now. However if you steal and bring home your reward your slower. Its simular to how Stealth works. The second part of the update is to make the game more deffensive. It makes rebuilding alot faster then it is today, Injury return does help this part imensly but might be a little to strong, this might also be a little to strong, but as said its not a fullproof system right from the get go and would need more discussion etc to get it good ballanced. But the more "deffensive the game is" the easier it is to play. The easier it is to play the fewer will overall quit. Say for a single night with the "new" Ticker code, you have about half the "times needed to be woken up" compared til today. This means alot more players can be competative for the top.

Sure the "Elite Alliances" might be even more elite but at the same time they would not need to horde these elite ones. Since the Differance between Elite and Good would be smaler. Part of what makes the elite elite is the ability to come on at any time and many times. With the change more people would be able to fill this role and overall this means more players that would be compedative. And PS: I never said this suggestion would be a must for the current code/game. But could be a usefull change for future ages. Its a feature worth discussing more then whats done so far. The only one that is truely thinking about this so far seams to be Darksider but he has always been bright. It helps to be more open minded and think "Is this better then something existing today Yes/No, can it be an alternative to whats today yes/no, could it be usefull for the future yes/no. Ask oneself alot of questions and look first for a suggestions strong points. Then bring up its bad points aswell then continue the discussion. The game currently is extremly fast in terms of attack and should be slowed down to make it easier to fight in the top ranks.

[Alcibiades]

I absolutely 100% refuse to read that reply until you make some paragraphs in there. I'm sorry if English isn't your first language but that is one appalling block of language that makes my eyes hurt. I'll edit this later with a response if you make yours readable :P

Edit: Also i think you accusing me of writing an answer biased on how long you've been here is neither here nor there in your answer :P. Admittedly i referenced how long you might have been here, but only insofar as to draw comparisons between last round and this. I don't care if you've been playing for every single round this game has had, I still would have posted a more or less identical answer to the one i posted above :P your experience has nothing to do with the fact that i don't like your idea or think it should be implemented.

Edit 2: Welcome back Sordes, hope you're feeling better!!!!

[Augustus]

I can see you have put a lot of thought into this, coming up with many changes to solve some of the problems 20 minute ticks would create. The problem is the benefit you suggest (making it easier to defend) doesn't justify all these changes. Can you imagine being a begginer and having to wait 20 minutes at a time to check the progress of an attack? Then there would be the problem of having to learn the difference between an 'attacking' tick and the shorter 'growing' ticks you suggested. A lot of people blame the complexity of the game as the main reason the playerbase isnt growing. Unfortunately your changes would only add to the problem. Maybe if you had suggested 15 minute ticks people would have found it easier to accept, but I think people would still reject the idea.

The problem with tick changes is getting them to fit neatly in 1 hour. 5 mins is too short and the servers would struggle. 15-20 mins is too long. If i wanted to see a change in tick duration (which i dont) i would suggest either 6 or 12 minutes as they both fit into 60 minutes. IMO 10 min ticks are fine and I think they are here to stay!

As for the opposition being due to who you are, I dont really agree. It's more likely due to the massive change you propose. People dont like big changes, look at all the fuss injury has caused...

[pinpower]

"Is this better then something existing today Yes/No

No!

can it be an alternative to whats today yes/no

No!

could it be usefull for the future yes/no.

No!

The game currently is extremly fast in terms of attack and should be slowed down to make it easier to fight in the top ranks.

Like i said and like alci said...the game CANNOT be made twice as long...you cant seriously think that it would make players stick around playing...i predict that if the azzman did this 50% of active players would quit/go inactive...

I think the balance we have now is perfect (game speed wise)...it means that to be successful you do have to be very active/very contactable etc etc..however...like alci said...if you have a couple of hours spare (or even an hour) you can come on...have a look for a target...send an attack, watch it to af3...then you can either watch the attack or come back later to plant etc...

Also with the introduction of injuries it means that 1hr a day players can have fun with this game still...they come on...have troops..can send an attack...also, with injuries watching an attack carefully and plan for defence etc isnt even as important...i mean if you have to go afk and die on defence its not like before when you wouldnt hardly be able to play for the next 2 days...



I just strongly disagree with this in any shape or form..not for this age, not for next age...

[Sekishi]

Oh well i was hoping to avoid this but very well time to crush some replies like in the old days and lets start with pinpower:


In what ways is this better then what exists today:
The current problem the game faces is that its losing its Playerbase at a to rapid rate compared to when new players join. Ive heard for the better part of 2 years that changes is being made to solve this. Face it, nothing is truely happending to solve the problem and the game keaps on losing its active players at a rapid rate. Compared to 10 Rounds ago it has lost more then Half of its active player base. New signups has almost disapeared compared to before. Why ? because most players have already invited all friends they have. They have tried the game and they havent linked it. There are several actualy MANY Browser absed games out there. And compared to almost all Bushtarion is insanely fast and drawing players to the game from these games has been almost impossible because Bushtarion requires to much constant attention to function. The game needs to slow down 1 way or the other in Order to make the game More Compedative in terms of holding onto its members. The 2 options are Either: Slow down all Eta's by around 3 Ticks. That would make Geo's eta 8 btw. Or the ticker needs to be slower.

The reason for this is that there is very few players capable of Organising Deffence or Attack in this game. The reason for this is that you got very little information to work with and the time you need to decide things on is extremly little. Currently an eta 5 attack needs to be deffended within 10 til 15 Minutes if you want to meet it head to head. You know how short this timeframe is ? And if there are many fakes which this game uses alot then its almost guess work most of the time. With the change this window would change from 10 til 15min to 20 til 35 Minutes. In some cases from 20 Minutes to 40 til 55 mins. This timeframe means that more players would be capable of organising deffence. Since you got more time to look for the fakes. You got more time to get people around. And you got more time to escape. Currently there are to few alliances able to put up a good fight. Why ? because in a single night you can lose most of your troops. Even with Injury return your alliance can be acre raped in a single night. Wars can end in a few days if the target cant hold on. Now at the start of the game how many can even really deffend well ? very few because the good players in this game just runs over and acre farms alliances lower down due to either early spies or traitors in the target alliances. The change to 20Min battle ticks alone would mean More players would be able to fight in the top ranks, more players would "qualify" to be part of a bigger alliance, more players would be capable of handling important jobs. All of this is something the game would benefit greatly from. So compare that to what you will lose:

You will lose:

* The ability to Rush bikers eta 1 To go right to attacking for 3 and have to get a pom online within 10 Minutes to move out or lose alot. This has been complainted about in the game for ages but slowing down the eta of Bikers makes them harder to use as a whole. So the only true option is Ticker change. Now you can stil do the same but you have twice the amount of time to get someone to move out. All other forms for rushes wont really be effected the same way. Rushes with pure lethals will stil be just as hard to deffend as before. However you have "10 more minutes" to react to the first strike, and you have about twice the time to get the target online to move out. It doesent make it easyer to deffend much. But it makes it easier to survive.

* The intense feeling of having to get everything done within 10 Minutes. It makes it easier to update each tick and get everything done So you lose the very intense thing that makes you have to be here every 10 minutes to get things optimal. Now its every 20minutes and even if you go away for an houer the chance is you wont be dead. That means you can get to have more sosial life and STIL play bushtarion activly. So you lose your massive advantage of having no life.

* You Lose the fact that you can farm down Smaler alliances fast. Meaning if you want more benfits you need to attack fatter targets. In order to get more incomme the need for higher steals becommes important. Lower alliances today are very attractive because you can get alot of acres for few losses. This overall change would mean that taking losses but getting a good steal is better because of the increased amount of resource ticks.


I can go on. But, honestly if you havent gotten it yet you wont.


Now lets continue. In what ways can it be a good alternative to whats today:

Because of the intense requirements to play this game well and lets face it not many is even able do to it anymore. The game suffers because it loses to many players that "just dont have the time to play this game anymore because it requires to much" this change would mean alot more players could stay, have life and play at the same time. One could go to work and one would not "lose out so much" in terms of risk of being attacked. And even if one does get attacked one most likly only would need to get on once instead of 2 or 3 times of your work houers. That makes the game more player friendly. Thats a huge importance for many games.


And regarding the current speed:

It CAN be slowed down and it SHOULD be. Because the game has already lost OVER 50% of its active player base and a other 50% of current will keap on disapearing over time and the game will die. The game NEEDS not currently in THIS age but in FUTURE updates to come Adapt the game so that it becommes more friendly with School and Work. Ticker change is the BEST Change to adapt to this. And with a new Age its possible to ADAPT everything from Unit Eta's to how strong attacks and deffence can be. Stop being short sighted and think of everything TODAY the game wont remain as today forever. The game needs to change and be updated on regular periods to keap game intrest. And sooner or later a new Full Age needs to be created again. Unit lineup will eventualy need to be replaced because adding more to the current is almost impossible because of the ballance situation.



So you are saying that the minimum amount of time an attack (for land) will be 4 hours and 20 mins (1hr 40 to get there{eta 5}, 1hr attacking {3 attacking ticks} and then another 1hr 40 to get back {eta 5})

That is ridiculous.

Also...if an alliance has 1hr 40 mins to get the person being attacking online...its far to easy...

Thats currently yes. But once more i will state Stop thinking just about current speeds but think of possible future. In future who is to say there wont exist a eta 3 Stealer on some route. We got thieves already. This change would really boost their value overall and it would really be noticable also. And your right on 4 Houers and 20 Minutes before the same mob can be sendt again. For most games out there. People will stil consider this VERY fast. And you say in a alliance to get 1 Houer and 40 Mins to get someone online, this is stil a very short time compared to most games out there who has players that would be interested in a game like Bushtarion. As time goes more and more players will go to games like Wow instead of games like Bushtarion because those games is all "Their pace" they can study, go to work and what ever they want and stil enjoy the game to the fullest meaning the game has all types of players. Bushtarion does not favor people that work or study activly. The few who does either goes Computer course or sit and work behind a computer in the first place. This change again would mean more players of other types of work could handle things. People who study would have a chance to go in their breaks to move out instead of having to risk go out in the middle of a class because they got eta 3 Bikers on them. The change is stil possitive. The only thing the game really would lose is some of its intensitivty, but this again could be solved by adding different changes in a possible future age. This would not be a very good standalone suggestion in current time, so stop thinking of it as sutch.

PS: If you havent figured out who i am yet my post lenght should start to make it clear. And to Alcibiades Im sorry for the lack of Paragraphs in that post. Ill try to splitt up into 2 now.

[pinpower]

Please dont take any of my replies as a personal comment against you.

Right now ive got that out the way...
I dont really care who you are (i read the small print in alci's post earlier)...and yes i know your this big suggestion guy!

This is one of the best thought out and best phrased suggestions we've seen in a long time (probably since your last suggestions on the old forums)...BUT it is also possibly the worst suggestion we've had (except stupid ones like weather predictions or w/e)

But once more i will state Stop thinking just about current speeds but think of possible future.

You keep saying this and it is your biggest downfall...YOU HAVE TO THINK ABOUT NOW!!! Right now the game has x amount of players...all playing in the current time frame (tick speed wise)...if you suddenly double this then all of those players that are able to play because of the quick speeds (as alci said..come online, send an attack, send defence...plant...buy up troops etc etc in just an hour).

Also...a full attack would take over 4 hours to complete (nearly 5)...so by doing this you arent making it easier for people to play less actively...you are forcing them to be more active (in a different way..which i shall explain)

For example, im a 15 year old kid (imagine) and i can play bush when i get home from school for a couple of hours before i have to do homework, have dinner with parents etc etc...so i can play from 4pm to about 7pm maybe...or maybe i can only play from 8pm to 10pm each night
Your suggestion would mean that i could no longer play at any sort of competitive level...i would have time to send an attack...but i wouldn't have time to watch it land and plant on the stolen land...

Also what about players that are less than 2 hours active a day...they cant ever attack successfully (yes they could attack and land....but assuming they can only play for 2 hours a day they would have to wait til the next day to even fill their acres)

ALSO...think about round start...right now to do well you need to be on at round start for a good amount of time...if the tick speed doubled you would have to be online far far further into the night...

Your suggestion would mean that you didnt have to by physically sat at the computer for as long...but to be able to play you would have to have the ability to get back to the computer


Okay..another consideration...say my alliance mate is being attacked by a huge force in 3 waves...we decide that we cant face all the attackers but we are going to fight the range tick and then recall...i send eta 4...that means i have to stick around for 80 minutes just to see the defence arrive...and then another 20 to be able to recall it...

Lets keep going with these eh...

Imagine an alliance attack...LT is set...targets are set...you get online send the attack...you have to then be around (available to get online) for over 4 hours (assuming you are going to try and take out the whole alliance...meaning multiple waves)

Rushes with pure lethals will stil be just as hard to deffend as before

From a stealth point of view they wont...the alliance will have (theoretically i think) 39:59 minutes to get the person being attacked online...meaning any alliance worth a top rank will never have to worry about stealth attacks...or eta 1 attacks....etc etc

The current problem the game faces is that its losing its Playerbase at a to rapid rate

Yes you are right...but your suggestion would FORCE the currently inactive playerbase to stop playing the game completely.




I could go on for alot longer...Basically i can completely see where you are coming from..but this could never work...not in the way you have suggested...just doubling the tick speed would be...i dont even know how to describe how bad it would be for the game (WHICH YOU HAVE TO LOOK AT BY A COMPARISON TO THE GAME IN ITS CURRENT FORM).

The introduction of injuries (while it needs to be tweaked ofc) has made the tick speed even more suited...it means that people that play 1 hour a day will always have troops when they come online (yes they could have troops waiting to return....but you get the point) so they can just play for as long as they are able to before going offline.

Also...as a side point...would that mean the rounds would be almost half a year long per round??? That would suck as well...thats to long, and if they rounds stayed the same length (RL wise) but the tick speed was doubled it would again be crap...


It CAN be slowed down and it SHOULD be

Of course it can be...azzer CAN just let everyone have 10 accounts if he wanted to...BUT it should not be slowed down to the degree that you have suggested...NEVER SHOULD THIS HAPPEN!

Just writing this i cant believe how many reasons there are not to agree with the suggestion...

[Augustus]

Ok, so you're adament that longer ticks are needed to help the playerbase grow. Now there is a fundamental flaw in your reasoning. As you point out the player base has been steadily decreasing and you blame 10 minute ticks as the cause. The problem with this is that the game saw a steady growth in the past and the game had 10 minute ticks. Correct me if i'm wrong but it always has had 10 minute ticks and it seems the playerbase has grown and shrunk irrespectively of the 10 minute ticks. I think the cause of the playerbase shrinking can be blamed on the increasing complexity of the game.

All the arguements against your proposed changes are well founded. Its like saying to a Formula 1 driver 'we're going to put you all in Ford Fiestas so more people can keep up with you'. This is rediculous and is almost a certain way to drive away half of the skilled playerbase. The answer to getting people to join is NOT solved by 20 minute ticks. It might suit your lifestyle but I doubt many people who already play would agree with you.

It takes a big man to accept when he's wrong. Question is, how big are you?

[Melnibone]

Sorry old friend i have to disagree too im slightly offended at this bit though... no offense but you havent played seriously in the past few rounds

The reason for this is that there is very few players capable of Organising Deffence or Attack in this game.

This is an opinion not a fact, i have played almost as many rounds as you and i can assure you i am surprised by how many players are not only capable of this but actually excel at it, in recent rounds i have had the pleasure of working with TheMysterious, Podunk, Kuda, Lordie, Illumination, Lisette, Don, Wacked, Wrath, Manicle, Clem and best of all (though he doesnt believe it) RichardM and thats only in the same ally as me the last 2 rounds thats as many if not a lot more than id have played beside in say rd 8?

Sorry Sekishi i think this would be a bad change for so many reasons posted already

[pinpower]

It takes a big man to accept when he's wrong. Question is, how big are you?

Sorry for a slightly off topic post...but *claps*.

BURN!!! :flamer: :onfire:

[f0xx]

And I second that... and I still love you sordes...

[Enrico]

Nah, as you never ever go offline during an attack, it would be much less attacking if everything took twice the time... I mean the times I can be online 1,5 hours in one go is more often than when I can be 3 hours online.

Not to mention attacking allied targets would be impossible, as even the most crappy ally will be able to get hold of someone to send out/buy up/last tick given hours to do so :D

So I don't support the idea. The idea of faster resources... well, I would like a shift away from having 1000s of acres being so important. Ideally I'd love to see different viable strategies for gaining income. Bounties used to be, but not with the new system. Bribes don't give you techs unfortunatly :P

[Sekishi]

I never take it as a personal attack other then from 1 certain person because well, i know he means it. Its quite amusing because those that stil play activly usualy cant see the points of this suggestion well. And getting opinions from those no longer playing isent rather easy at times :P but ill try to explain:

The problem is NOT the 10 Minute Ticks. I want to make that clear first. The problem is the Intensitivty of the game on Compedative levels. This is fun for the Elite of the game because face it, it can keap you busy up to over 18 Houers a day if you want and keap doing things almost all the time. However its also extremly stressfull in the way that if you want to be part of a compedative allie. Hell even just putting up your cell number which is a recuirement to overall be accepted most places would mean the following: Say your able to come on most of the time when someone calls, this leads to you becomming "dependable" and soon your alliance grows in size, it reaches the range of the more top allies and because youve done rather well so far you are naturaly more fat then most. This means incomming, alot of it. You will be pressured all night trying to deffend, and since the "Timeframe of repeative attacks of same mobs" is so smal its very hard to get any rest. And eventualy your deffence crumbles. But the first few times one easily take heart and start up again, now that youve been raped fully youve replaced a few members that cant be bothered anymore with more active ones. And you keap being hit and you deffend overall well again, then it leads to same process but perhaps by a other Alliance attacking because they saw others overwhelming you rather easily before.

Or your a student. You keep on oversleeping because of deffences. Or you keep getting beeped at school or the like. Natuarly your attension will get drawn away. And the same process continues. Most compedative players here. Put up how many houers do you usualy need to SIT infront of your computer in war times between 2 or more allies ? Its usualy quite long because of once youve done deffending you get smal rest and its all over again. With a Change to 20 Minute Battle ticks, the time between repeative strikes would lesson giving less pressure and intensivity on the players, which means it takes longer time for players to burn out. I stress it again, its not 10 Minute ticks in itself thats the problem. But Organising Deffence within 10/20 Minute timegaps is also very intense and Alan i will say it upfront, very few is capable of doing that unless its usualy only 3 Targets, then you get 2 on fake 1, last tick 1 and lets to a other. That dont take much effort. The problem goes on when there is 8,9,10 Targets. Or when you aim to take down A hostile alliance, keeping yourself updated on times when people are usualy on from the activity of Flyovers and spies, or trying to catch that pesky mass guru Prot offline to destroy those blockers. Attacks overall are easier to manage then deffence but overall very few people are able to put up with alot of the pressure over a long time. People are in need of having a decent life on the side. And the Average timeframe for "Random Players" id say would be around 5 Rounds. After that its either moving to change study locations, you get work, or the pressure on your workplace has finaly buildt up. And to pinpower again, no you do not need to think NOW. The game will create future Ages, creating discussion of Elements that "COULD" not saying Should in this one be usefull in making the future age more "Userfriendly" for Gamers that wants to be more active "on the side" of everything else. And pinpower, with the change of just the battle ticker. One could be here update every 20 min instead of 10, which meant doing homework, checking up on bush between classes, less chance of being killed while asleep or at work. Injury has helped alot in this regard for sure, it might also after being around a while longer to make it finetuned be the ideal sulution also. But even if a system is made to fill a role discussion about alternatives is never bad.

And to all users of the forum and readers of this post. Please remember that discussions is Always better then pure posting. Foxx, i know i dont take anything person. But posts like that you just made there doesent help the thread at all, all it does is aim to "Kill a thread sooner" Keeping threads alive is far more usefull. Posting up alternatives, even "asuming things could work" and take discussions in different ways can lead to OTHER suggestions or idea's made by OTHER people come into light, which again might devolop into something the game could really use. Most of my suggestions are almost ALWAYS to extreme, i know that very well. But it always creates debates, and from those debates quite often something good comes up thanks to someone else. Thats why i never stop arguing with all of you, because i love seeking out those kind of replies. I just hope that people will understand that.

[Augustus]

Reading your latest post it is becoming apparent that your simply regurgitating your original post, with no new arguements or convincing content. If you want to convince people you are right you have to quote peoples arguements against your suggestion and give reasons for why they are wrong. Your plain ignorance of EVERYONES opposition to your suggestion, only serves to reinforce the impression of your incompetence in this thread. Now you can obviously put a lot of thought into your suggestions, but until you can put the same amount of thought into your arguements, this suggestion can never be taken seriously.

[Melnibone]

Alan i will say it upfront, very few is capable of doing that unless its usualy only 3 Targets, then you get 2 on fake 1, last tick 1 and lets to a other. That dont take much effort. The problem goes on when there is 8,9,10 Targets. Or when you aim to take down A hostile alliance, keeping yourself updated on times when people are usualy on from the activity of Flyovers and spies, or trying to catch that pesky mass guru Prot offline to destroy those blockers. Attacks overall are easier to manage then deffence but overall very few people are able to put up with alot of the pressure over a long time. People are in need of having a decent life on the side.

Sorry Thomas couple of examples of how this is wrong there is no doubt you know the physical mechanics of the game very well but of the actual playerbase your knowledge is very limited through not playing at the top level these days i'll do this with an overview of my ally last round as i find it unbelievably arrogant that you seem to know the abilities of players you have not played with recently or at all

Last Round - In Enigma we finished 3rd points 2nd value

Euro Time - we had me, TheMysterious, Lisette, RichardM, Slabbedask, Jiggy, Seetal
Aussie Time - Lordie
USA - Podunk, Don, Wacked

Each of these players (due to us not always being the most active) i know personally took charge defending against 3-4 other top allies and mass solos attacking us sometimes as many as 150 seperate incomings against 10-15 targets at a time yes sometimes we lost land or sometimes people were uncontactable so got zerod but overall the standard of defense was extremely high and i know it was the same for all the top 4 allies all these players have earned my respect and for you to dismiss the playerbase is not only misinformed but unbelievably arrogant

What you are seeking to introduce and im sorry if this appears personal but what you REALLY want is the ability to have an alliance filled with semi active people with enough of a timescale in the ticks to institute something similar to your old attempts at diamond defense well sorry matey the whole appeal of bushtarion is that it is a fast paced wargame where no's can overwhelm skill

What you are seeking to institute is not bushtarion its a whole new game and tbh its not going to happen

[Twigley]

I think it's fine the way it is.
If anything i would love it to change to shorter ticks as it suits my style of play.

On the topic of not being able to organise defence - Bs Sordes. I organised 90-100% of the interlude defence last round just on pure choice and i know 3/4 others could of organised defence just as effiecent i am just a perfectionist :D. And it was very succesful. I am also a student ... and it hasn't effected me *too* much as i can construct a plan for defence in about 60 seconds just at looking at some factors.

I will also post like Melni posted ... we where simple building a core alliance and had this cover:

Euro time - Twigley, Lukey, Mastah
USA - Twigley, Lukey, Mastah
Aussie - Twigley, Lukey, Mastah

Interlude Finish Rank 1 Value, Rank 1 Points, Rank 2 eff.

See a patern? ;P

We are always on or always contactable at different periods as we dont have the regular EURO gmts ... But we could all get on to organise it with ease.
+ Having alliance members help us along with telling us new incs appeared, fakes not shown up etc helps alot and is ALOT more enjoyable when its all happening at once and in a short period of time ... it gives a bigger buzz for sure.


It isnt hard to organise defence from a mass hit ( on 1-3 targets, fakes , reals etc ) any more than it is to do multiple defences. If you have large spread incs on your alliance it's VERY easy to scare every single inc away as i can normally see where the real is etc etc.

On the subject of attack - Me, Lukey, Silence, Lordie - all easily co-ordinated against each other. If you have a good set of players then they will respond instantly to commands and instructions that you give them...

[Cyrus]

sorry sordes i did like some of your previous suggestions but this is very mis-informed, the reason people are leaving isnt due to being killed afew times i night, if someone as that attitude they will quit if they're killed once or 3 times. the people leave the game are for multply aspect not jsut 1, for example people quit because they are fed up, because the injury system, because of route nerf's because of solo nerf's, because they just dont like the way the game as evolved.

im almost certain you havnt asked everyone thats left the reason they quit. and if the game got any slower im sure you would see a lot of people quitting because majority of us enjoy the fast pace, and we all hate waiting around for attacks to finish.

[Enrico]

If anything the injury system has meant that semiactive players to a much larger degree can be competetive.

If there's a massive bash and they can't get on, they lose 20-30% of their staff... a far cry away from the old system where it would take days before you were able to contribute to your ally again if you get 0ed.

Just make sure you have a set up that makes it painful to attack you, and that some of the players that are hyperactive/easily contactable have staff that can stop a land loss, and bombs away.

[Sekishi]

I will just post one thing: Please reread what ive written. To many dont read it and post things based purly on the first post. Im after the Debate, not the implemention of the Suggestion. Get this into your heads right now. I havent said its the 10 Minute ticks thats the problem, Ive said that the fact the game is "To intense" on the compedative level thats the problem.

And Twingly, How large is this playerbase ? And how many players are actualy capable of organising "large Scale Deffence/offence" and over how many alliances are those players spread ? This came has a huge habit of Consentrating those capable into the same Alliance's which means what ive said is stil true. There is to few players capable spread over different alliances that leads to the following:

"Elite Group of Alliance's" - The compedative group that fights for the wins each round. Usualy around 80 People each round can fit under this category + A moderate group of Solo's that nummber differ.

"The Hunting Ground Alliance's:" The Players that could devolop into something good with experience and time, but these are most often the one's that quit. Because they keep on getting hit hit hit hit hit over and over again, Injury is the true savior of this group but they keep getting acre raped over and over and just end up as a feeding ground for the compedative group. Its not fun at all being stuck in this group, you get some good attacks in just to get trashed while sleeping. You rebuild then get trashed and raped again because there are to few players able to support you. Of these players about 20% Stays around, the other 80% falls into a group that goes downwords. Several quit each round, and others get less active. Some returns after a while but overall its very few.

"The rest" basicly the lower end players which fill up the majority of the game acounts.


The problem that the "Intense factor" i meantion, it really dont affect the "Elite group" much at all. Because most have a living enviorment that supports their kind of play. The problem is all that falls out in the lower area's because they cant be in the game enough to deffend themself, grow properly etc. Everyone knows if your starting late, trying it out for the first time or just havent been able to settle in a decent alliance yet you will get targeted real fast if it seams you are an attractive target. This is ok, and ive never said because of a few hits anyone quits. People quit because they feel that almost no matter how hard they true the result is always the same. What im after, is a Debate that might spawn, from one of YOU that can help make the game more Friendly towards the "Non Elite" groups. The game doesnt support "Newer/Less experienced" players much. There has been talks about Ingame tutorial for better part of 2 years, if the game was serious about solving its problems it could have been fixed long ago. My suggestions are always to extreme, sometimes like this Impossible to implement in the current code. Because unlike many other suggestion makers my suggestions create active debates. Its much like how BlackWolf starts a new gripe and the post count grows in it real fast because well its a "habit". This suggestion as it is will NEVER be implemented, ive known that from the start so stop acusing me of continueing a stupid debate. Because what im debating few of you have not even tried to answer, thats one of the fundamental problems the game has, and needs to be solved one way or the other in order for the Game population to remain stabil or grow.

[Enrico]

One important thing, it seems like a lot of people are of the notion that the only way to have fun is to grow, be as big as possible, and amass land.

I think this is a fallacy. If you play casually, wont be online much, or is just starting to learn the game, keep your land fat low, and don't worry if you are in the 500's value-wise. You will find a lot more targets, and stay out of range from the "top" players. Sure you won't portal, but you can get some pretty fun battle out of it! And that's the name of the game. Find some ally with okay people and learn the ropes, or just hang around with for the social part of the game. With injuries you seldom will find yourself unable to do anything when you log on, sure you might have less staff or less acres than when you logged off, but check the BRs and adjust if you think your set up was wrong. And then go out hunting again!

Threat the game like a game, not everyone have the time and skill/experience to rank at the top, but there are ways to make yourself a less viable target for the big fish, and there are always battles to be fought and people to get to know.

My first round, if I had been hit during the night, I would send a message to the guy who attacked me and ask why he had picked me as a target, to learn if I had a poor set up, or had painted a target on me in other ways. Sure, some a**holes always have ignore on, while others never bother to answer, but I learned a lot from the ones who answered! And I think all players should respond nicely if they get asked questions from new players, we as players are the finest tutors there are for new players.

[Sekishi]

Well the true fun of Bushtarion is the Community. Its what makes even most bored players and myself even if i was terribly ill i keept on playing because of the community. Any player that really gets into the community stays for a long while. This is overall in BlackWolf's favor the only strong argument for large alliances now. I remember when i started we formed a big community right from the get go and had loads of fun, the ties made that round effected gameplay for 7 more rounds. Ok lets change things slightly if this change was made. How would people react to it ?:

All Units would get +1 on their eta ranges. But the Geo units would get eta -2 on their Return eta. So say you sendt out a Mob with Eta 5 Lethals and Eta 6(Attack) Geo's you would have Eta 6 attack, but your return eta would be 5. It would slow down the game not to much, it would make rushes a little harder and reduce some of the pressure that many players face that can be a issue. Its a different view to the problem then the original suggestion, but if you compare the two. How would this one be compared the first things posted here so far?

[pinpower]

"The Hunting Ground Alliance's:" The Players that could devolop into something good with experience and time, but these are most often the one's that quit. Because they keep on getting hit hit hit hit hit over and over again, Injury is the true savior of this group but they keep getting acre raped over and over and just end up as a feeding ground for the compedative group. Its not fun at all being stuck in this group, you get some good attacks in just to get trashed while sleeping. You rebuild then get trashed and raped again because there are to few players able to support you. Of these players about 20% Stays around, the other 80% falls into a group that goes downwords. Several quit each round, and others get less active. Some returns after a while but overall its very few.

your wrong.

I have played in this group for most of my bush career i guess...my first few rounds i was about 2/3 hours active so i just played casually, and then more recently if ive been to lazy to play properly i have just joined an ally for fun...AND

i think being in this kind of level is very fun! arguably more fun...between rank 500 and 1000 (the level im talking about might have changed slightly, i havnt played there for a while) is great cos you dont have to worry about getting online to send defence, you arent pranked to run your staff, you've got bucket loads of targets, you can get nice and fat if you want...or you can not steal for a bit...you can play 1 hr a day active, oneday you could be on for 5 hours...hell sometimes you could go for well over a day without logging in and not worry.

(i had a whole extension of this point but i cba to write it now...will come back)

[Enrico]

I agree with pinpower here. Being "stuck" around the 500 mark is not so bad, even if you get the occasional attack while you're away. Especially now than injuries means you won't log on to a number of 0s

[DR4545]

I've skimmed the posts, and here's my opinion:

Do you really want attacks to take a little under two hours? That would be agonizingly slow.

If we really want defenders to have a bit more time to react, here's what would be more practical:

Make most units in the game one ETA slower (I don't know that this would be an improvement ... just a better suggestion)

And, making two ticks for attacks and harvesting just seems like an unnecessary bear. Why split 4x harvesting ticks per each normal tick? Just have 4x the seeds in each one normal tick and call it a day.

[Sweetlee]

How about 5 minute ticks instead? Would increase the playerbase by not making people wait forever for things. Alright you caught me, I'm unpatient, but I don't like 20 min ticks.

[CountZepplin]

There's an important distinction between what the current player base finds fun (until they burn out) and what the prospective player base would find fun. The game won't be much fun without new players joining in and yet still being able to play competitively. A 4 hour round trip attack isn't actually that bad - launch it 2 hours one way, do some homework or other stuff, check defense, maybe a land grab, plant, go to bed/home. Also, most of the players who've left the game have done so not out of boredom, but because of the massive time commitment.

That said, a trial period of 12-15 minute ticks might be good; it would only slow down each tick by a little bit, but the overall attack would take 10-20 minutes longer at least.

[Alcibiades]

How about 5 minute ticks instead? Would increase the playerbase by not making people wait forever for things. Alright you caught me, I'm unpatient, but I don't like 20 min ticks.

Absolutely not!

Have you ever played a PW with 5 minute ticks? It's frantic and a vicious time commitment because in the space of a single hour you can be zeroed and raped. ;) If you so much as sneeze you can lose a tick's worth of troops. Your suggestion is utter insanity, pardon my rudeness. :)

I wouldn't mind 15 minute ticks, I suppose in the long run I'd even end up defending it. But I like the time commitment part to bushtarion, it's fast paced, intense, free and good fun despite all my razzing of it. So leave it alone please ;)

[Komodo]

i joined bush for the fast pace action :P even tho i think 10mins ticks are too long ;(

dont make it any longer !! if anything make it shorter :D

[Souls]

10 minutes is too long and too short at the same time. :P