Super Tuesday

[TheNamelessWonder]

Anyone else here in the States go out in vote in the primaries today? Or has anyone already voted in one of the earlier states?

I myself went out today and voted for Obama. The Republicans are generally sucktastic this time around, and I certainly am not going to support Hillary Clinton :roll:

[Meneldil]

and I certainly am not going to support Hillary Clinton :roll:

Out of interest, why not?

I'm not certain who I'd support in your position, but I'm interested to know why you dismiss Clinton out of hand?

[TheNamelessWonder]

and I certainly am not going to support Hillary Clinton :roll:

Out of interest, why not?

I'm not certain who I'd support in your position, but I'm interested to know why you dismiss Clinton out of hand?

Not out of hand, I've opposed her for a long time now. In short, every one of her ideas seems to be horrible. And I don't feel like I can trust a word out of her mouth...even worse than your typical politician.

[Forwyn]

and I certainly am not going to support Hillary Clinton :roll:

Out of interest, why not?

I'm not certain who I'd support in your position, but I'm interested to know why you dismiss Clinton out of hand?

Socialized health care; my major staying chemistry pre-med depends on whether or not Hillary loses in November.

[Bobbin]

And what exactly is wrong with that?

The NHS is the greatest acheivment this country has ever made, and free health care for all is an amazingly brilliant thing!..

[Gooner-fan-deano]

Except the problems we have with it :D

[Alcibiades]

Obama Ftw!

Hillary would clearly be my second choice. Bill Clinton has proven himself as an effective world leader and Hillary is clearly no idiot. But then again, do we really want *another* Clinton administration?

The Republicans scare me: Mitt Romney: raving lunatic.

And unfortunately for Senator McCain I am doubtful about his physical health to maintain him through his entire term of office. And despite his necessary intelligence, i'm sure that i'd rather have a sharper younger brain in office.

I was listening to CBC radio the other day (radio i know, shocking eh? ) and a 40 year old American woman said the best comment i've heard about recent American politics and it was this: 'I've never been able to vote for anything other than Clinton or Bush!'

While it is a bit of an exaggeration, are we really going to turn the Presidential Office into a dynastic title for the wealthiest families of the US to bandy about? No, i should think not.

Vote for Change, vote for Obama!

[TheNamelessWonder]

Oh, and how about Huckabee? You know, the guy who wants to amend the Constitution to be more in line with God's laws...

[Axis]

Except the problems we have with it :D

Compared to the problems we'd have without it, the 'problems' are a load of nothing. It's just an easy target for the media. Well they need something to report with the 24hour news :P

Personally I think Mrs Clinton has got something right there!

[Alcibiades]

Oh, and how about Huckabee? You know, the guy who wants to amend the Constitution to be more in line with God's laws...


Frankly, we should just get Indiana Jones out of retirement to hand over the Covenant of the Ark and booyah, Huckabee will be sidelined because we'll already have God's Laws.

Boo hoo, sucks to be you, huckabee.

[TheNamelessWonder]

Personally I think Mrs Clinton has got something right there!

But she doesn't want socialized healthcare (which would be a different argument entirely). She wants to mandate that everyone has health insurance, which would be largely provided by the private sector (and of course private health insurers are a big part of our healthcare problem). Those who don't get it would be fined and/or locked up. Now that sounds like a good idea!

[Axis]

Personally I think Mrs Clinton has got something right there!

But she doesn't want socialized healthcare (which would be a different argument entirely). She wants to mandate that everyone has health insurance, which would be largely provided by the private sector (and of course private health insurers are a big part of our healthcare problem). Those who don't get it would be fined and/or locked up. Now that sounds like a good idea!

Forgive me, I'm not current in American Politics. BURN THE WITCH!! :twisted:

[Azzer]

You guys should watch the latest Michael Moore documentary "Sicko" - about the national healthcare in the states, and the healthcare in other countries... as usual another great documentary from the man himself.

[TheNamelessWonder]

You guys should watch the latest Michael Moore documentary "Sicko" - about the national healthcare in the states, and the healthcare in other countries... as usual another great documentary from the man himself.

Ew, Michael Moore. Right or wrong he's such a raving douchebag...

[Forwyn]

That, and he likes to make slanted documentaries that imply Cubans have it better...rofl

/me boards a dingy and heads to Cuba

[Azzer]

Argh the Republicans are massing on my forums again! Gerritoffofmeeeeeeee!

Hmm, anyway, half midnight... taxi leaves at 6 AM for the airport... I really should get some sleep. Ciao, rainy and snowy England!

[TheNamelessWonder]

Argh the Republicans are massing on my forums again! Gerritoffofmeeeeeeee!

Hmm, anyway, half midnight... taxi leaves at 6 AM for the airport... I really should get some sleep. Ciao, rainy and snowy England!

Surely, sir, you do not insinuate that I am a Republican? For that would be the gravest of insults, which would leave me only the option of challenging you to a duel to the death.

[Forwyn]

I would vote for ANY candidate to keep Hillary out of office

[TheNamelessWonder]

I'd *probably* vote for McCain over her, and I would vote for Paul over her (except he won't get the nom). Absolutely not Huckabee, he's nuts. In a Huckabee-Hillary race I'd either not vote or perhaps write-in Chuck Norris.

[Forwyn]

But Chuck Norris is a Huckabee supporter! xD

[TheNamelessWonder]

But Chuck Norris is a Huckabee supporter! xD

Yeah, I know :(

[LAFiN]

In short, every one of her ideas seems to be horrible. And I don't feel like I can trust a word out of her mouth...even worse than your typical politician.

You know, it's funny. Almost every one of her policies is the same as Obama's.

If I were to vote, I'd go with Hillary (I missed the Nevada caucus and am not registered up here in Washington). Barack is an amazing speaker, and I'm sure he'd do fine, but overall I liked Hillary's tax policies and universal health care to be stronger selling points than Barack's (which are mostly the same, just not as forceful). We need someone to get the budget back on balance, and I know with the Clinton's back in the White House we'll start bringing the deficit back to a manageable number (not the 480 billion or so that Bush pushed it to a couple years ago). Either way, I'm fine with either of the Democratic candidates.

I'd *probably* vote for McCain over her, and I would vote for Paul over her (except he won't get the nom). Absolutely not Huckabee, he's nuts. In a Huckabee-Hillary race I'd either not vote or perhaps write-in Chuck Norris.

You'd seriously vote for Ron Paul? He is a raving lunatic, fascist, libertarian. Ron Paul is leagues worse than Huckabee, who is also crazy.

[TheNamelessWonder]

You'd seriously vote for Ron Paul? He is a raving lunatic, fascist, libertarian. Ron Paul is leagues worse than Huckabee, who is also crazy.

...link?



I wish I were in a mood to get a good rant going about how bad Hillary would be, but sadly I am not...

[Forwyn]

You'd seriously vote for Ron Paul? He is a raving lunatic, fascist, libertarian.

Yup, the Constitution is raving lunacy and fascism. Thats right...

[yoyo]

and I certainly am not going to support Hillary Clinton :roll:

Out of interest, why not?

I'm not certain who I'd support in your position, but I'm interested to know why you dismiss Clinton out of hand?

i have a four page list of at least 45 people who have died mysteriously by being involved with Hillary.
i also guess you never seen hillary "go off" on someone [mostly her staff]. I have and it is quite scary to see this reptile ***** get mad. she lost my vote years ago when i saw what she really is.

[Illumination]

Im nearly certain that I will be voting for Obama. America needs change, both internally and how we are perceived by other nations. I rpobably shouldnt be typing this with a fever (it is bound to make less sense than even my normal posts) but I thought Id throw in my two cents.

[Subdivisions]

McCain, just cuz his gray hair is SeXy.

Hilary is a no go for her mandatory health care.

Obama is going to raise taxes.

I can't think of anything about McCain I don't like. The man has truly lived an amazing life! I wish the best of luck to him for his remaining years!

[TheNamelessWonder]

I can't think of anything about McCain I don't like. The man has truly lived an amazing life! I wish the best of luck to him for his remaining years!

Don't have a problem with his attack-first foreign policy?

[Subdivisions]

I couldn't agree more with his foreign policy; I think leaving a country while it's in the gutter is by far the worst thing that we could do. I take my hat off to all of the men that have given their lives, and to all of the men who continue to put their lives on the line everyday, to make the world a better/safer place. They are truly heroes and should always be recognized as such.

[Souls]

I'm voting for Obama. I'm not very keen on a democratic republic being run by two families for 28 years, given Hilary gets two terms. :P

In terms of the health care conversation, I personally believe the key to fixing health care starts by taking the money out of the insurance companies' hands. Everything we pay is all given to them, so the hospitals or government or anyone else hardly sees any of it.

[Jorizz]

I couldn't agree more with his foreign policy; I think leaving a country while it's in the gutter is by far the worst thing that we could do. I take my hat off to all of the men that have given their lives, and to all of the men who continue to put their lives on the line everyday, to make the world a better/safer place. They are truly heroes and should always be recognized as such.


Going into Iraq was one of the worst things they could possibly be doing - repeating the same mistake is the worst thing they can possibly do. If you think it made the world any safer - you are wrong, the reasons given to attack Iraq were unjustified and false. Those who wish to put their lives at stake(if not forced..) for such a moronic cause are the idiots of this age.

[Subdivisions]

It's easy to say it isn't justified now since WMDs weren't found, but the way Saddam was acting it appeared as if he did. He was a madman that killed his own people...can you imagine if he did have WMDs? Hindsight is always 20/20, given what we know now the war isn't justified, but at the time of action it was justified, imo. It was a potential threat that had to be dealt with, and Saddam didn't think America had the balls to back up their warnings. I personally believe the world is a much safer place now that there is one less crazy dictactor in the world. I realize a lot of people don't share this view, but when you live in a world with WMDs, national security has to go beyond one's own borders. You are entitled to your opinion as much as I am entitled to mine. ;)

[Augustus]

You guys should watch the latest Michael Moore documentary "Sicko" - about the national healthcare in the states, and the healthcare in other countries... as usual another great documentary from the man himself.

Only problem is he uses the NHS as a positive example of state healthcare...despite the fact UK hospitals are rife with MRSA, tourists come over for sight seeing hols with life saving surgery chucked in for free, staff are underpayed and poorly trained leading to an all time low in staff recruitment. Consequently immigration laws have been dropped lower than Lindsay Lohans knickers, in order to entice 'trained' immigrants into the country. Meanwhile all manner of freeloaders waltz into the country due to the 'open doors' policy (as if we didn't have enough already). So as far as I see it, any tax paying American who's opposed to state healthcare has their head screwed on as they're the ones who'll lose out. Sub standard healthcare at a premium price to compensate for all of societies Leeches who expect everything for free.

Rant over :P

[Jorizz]

Subdivsion, a suspision is no justification for a million deaths. The world is not a safer place because Saddam got killed, - you can try and exterminate terrorism but rather you should look at the forces that created them.

[Subdivisions]

It's not just a suspicion that gives justification, it's the lack of cooperation. Possessing nuclear weapons isn't something that can be taken lightly. He was asked multiple times to work with weapon inspectors and he refused repeatedly. That obviously makes one look guilty, what were we supposed to think?

Only in a Utopian society would there be no need for something such as a "policing body." The US, being the 'world leader' so to speak, has taken on this role. Almost nobody likes the police, because they have to enforce certain things that allow for society to continue on; which, makes certain people unhappy, because they can't do as they please. Therefore, in my opinion, the US is trying to do what is best for the world, but is in turn hated, because of taking on the responsibility of a "policing body."

[TheNamelessWonder]

They weren't any threat to America, even if they had WMDs, and as such there was no justification for thousands of American lives and billions of American dollars to be put into taking out Saddam.

[Bobbin]

You guys should watch the latest Michael Moore documentary "Sicko" - about the national healthcare in the states, and the healthcare in other countries... as usual another great documentary from the man himself.

Only problem is he uses the NHS as a positive example of state healthcare...despite the fact UK hospitals are rife with MRSA, tourists come over for sight seeing hols with life saving surgery chucked in for free, staff are underpayed and poorly trained leading to an all time low in staff recruitment. Consequently immigration laws have been dropped lower than Lindsay Lohans knickers, in order to entice 'trained' immigrants into the country. Meanwhile all manner of freeloaders waltz into the country due to the 'open doors' policy (as if we didn't have enough already). So as far as I see it, any tax paying American who's opposed to state healthcare has their head screwed on as they're the ones who'll lose out. Sub standard healthcare at a premium price to compensate for all of societies Leeches who expect everything for free.

Rant over :P

For all it's faults though, the NHS is the greatest acheivement of any country to date.

Yes the waiting lists are long, and yes some hospitals have MRSA... But at the end of the day, giving a good standards of health care to everyone wins out, even with a few problems.

[Augustus]

You guys should watch the latest Michael Moore documentary "Sicko" - about the national healthcare in the states, and the healthcare in other countries... as usual another great documentary from the man himself.

Only problem is he uses the NHS as a positive example of state healthcare...despite the fact UK hospitals are rife with MRSA, tourists come over for sight seeing hols with life saving surgery chucked in for free, staff are underpayed and poorly trained leading to an all time low in staff recruitment. Consequently immigration laws have been dropped lower than Lindsay Lohans knickers, in order to entice 'trained' immigrants into the country. Meanwhile all manner of freeloaders waltz into the country due to the 'open doors' policy (as if we didn't have enough already). So as far as I see it, any tax paying American who's opposed to state healthcare has their head screwed on as they're the ones who'll lose out. Sub standard healthcare at a premium price to compensate for all of societies Leeches who expect everything for free.

Rant over :P

For all it's faults though, the NHS is the greatest acheivement of any country to date.

Yes the waiting lists are long, and yes some hospitals have MRSA... But at the end of the day, giving a good standards of health care to everyone wins out, even with a few problems.

Hmm, well I have relatives/friends who work/have worked for the NHS and I can assure you that none of them share the same high opinion as you! Also watching recent programmes documenting the failings in hygiene and also maternity care during and after pregnancy hardly instills faith in the department of health. Without taking anything away from the hard working NHS staff, the evidence points towards a system that struggles compared to previous years. I'm glad that someone shows faith in the system Bobbin, unfortunately I can be somewhat of a pesimist when evidence from all sources suggests there is cause for concern.

Back onto topic, I would like to see Obama win however whoever wins will be making history. Americas first black president, or first female president. Obamas victory would signal a solid departure from Americas racist history, leaving those in the 'deep south' a minority of Americas population. One thing which made me laugh the other day was hearing a hardcore Obama fan stating that he deserves to win because 'he's so sexy and charming!'. As if the stereo type of Americans being fickle and obsessed with appearance wasn't bad enough, along comes this airhead and compounds the issue :lol: Its good to see that this thread proves that the biggest tits or the whitest smile aren't the primary concerns for every Americans choice of President ;)

EDIT:
Just an afterthought, I'd be inclined to say that the best achievement of any country to date(besides Bush) has to be the Japanese Bullet Train. A system designed to eliminate every flaw and weakness from the UKs rail network, bloody genius IMO. If only Brits were humble enough to learn things from abroad we might not have such a disgruntled population.....but then we wouldn't be British.

[Bobbin]

Sorry, i wasn't saying the NHS is perfect, by any means it's not, and there are alot of improvements that could be made to it.

However, for what it is right now, it is still an awesome acheivment, and i think the best thing this country has ever put into place, even with it's flaws.

[Forwyn]

Saddam should have been ousted in '91.

[Augustus]

Saddam should have been ousted in '91.

Correction. He should have been assassinated when the SAS had their chance.

[Bobbin]

Correction. It was none of the rest of the worlds business and we should have all just left well alone.

[Augustus]

Correction. It was none of the rest of the worlds business and we should have all just left well alone.

Yeah your right in that respect. But when considering the consequences now compared to what may have happened then, I think he should have been shot when the chance and the excuse was good enough. We were already there, the political reason was far more legitimate than Bush Jr's farsical 'War on Terror' and the Islamic/Muslim backlash would probably have been less globally volatile than what has occured since the 2nd Gulf War. Personally I'm glad that there is one less dictator on this planet, but at the same time I feel that the circumstances and consequences of this haven't proven worthy of the loss of life from all sides....my reasoning for why he should have been shot in the 90's

[Charlie_B]

Correction. It was none of the rest of the worlds business and we should have all just left well alone.

So torture, murder, rape etc are all perfectly fine as long as it's not happening anywhere near you?

[CFalcon]

We did the right thing going into Iraq (for reasons such as those given by Charlie, not for WMDs), it just could have been done better.

If Britain was ruled by a dictator who was torturing and murdering at will, I would sure as hell hope someone would come and sort things out, just maybe in a less clumsy manner than what is currently happening in Iraq.

And yes, it would have been much better if the whole affair had been settled 16 years ago.

[Charlie_B]

Just to clarify, I don't believe we were right to go into Iraq as we did, breaking international law and leaving a country in civil war as a result of incompetent and insufficient planning.
I do believe that intervention was necessary and appropriate, but not the way in which it occured.

I have a feeling this thread is drifting slightly off topic :P

[TheNamelessWonder]

Hang the topic, we've got a good discussion going on now :P

[brainiac132]

I actually had hoped ron paul might end up being a nominee...I also liked what i saw of his voting record and his ideas and, as i think someone said before, we need some major changes in the US. Further, i've long been a libertarian, and would have loved to have seen one score a major party nomination. As is, i'm still looking into the other candidates, but will likely wait to see who the main 2 will be...So far i've been looking at mccain and obama, as it appears he'll be the one to secure the demo nomination. It will be unlikely that i vote, cause i really don't agree with either of them enough...but i might find that i can tolerate one better than the other. lol. we'll see.

I'm not certain about national health care anymore...up until a few weeks ago, i might have given a big hell no...i've seen too many abuses of current systems in place to trust government oversight of things like that. but looking into the NHS, i read somewhere it's cheaper per person for health care, etc...though, i also read that the system is only required to break even, so that may be the reason. i dunno...still looking into it...the thing that really has me scared is the fact i read that a person retiring this year will need like 200k per year in health care or something like that. lol. reading that has me a bit scared. i don't think an NHS is necessarily the answer, but maybe fix up the healthcare systems in place for the elderly and disabled wouldn't be a bad thing.

As to the subject of the wars...lol...i've never agreed with the US being the police for the world...it's why we're in this mess with terrorists in the first place if u ask me. Our support for israel has caused us to be their secondary targets, and it's just not good for us. lol. The original gulf war i can see as a smart move, as iraq had invaded a key oil source for us, and i do think we need to protect our interests in some ways. had we done things right the first time there, we'd probably be better off now...the war going on in iraq now, i totally disagree with as it's costing the US billions, was started based on (for the most part) on false evidence, and wouldn't even be necessary, imo, if (as i said before) just let the world deal with it's own issues. lol

[TheNamelessWonder]

Ron Paul had a lot of good ideas and a lot of bad ideas. My feeling was that he had the right stand on some of the more important issues, and that his more radical ideas would never get through Congress.

But of course, he isn't a real Republican. So he never had a chance of getting the nom.


The remaining candidates have pretty much bad ideas and worse ideas. Right now I lean towards Obama. His positions are similar to Clinton, except that he doesn't have a long reputation of being slimy like she does. And McCain's foreign policy is absolutely frightening.

[Jorizz]

Only in a Utopian society would there be no need for something such as a "policing body." The US, being the 'world leader' so to speak, has taken on this role. Almost nobody likes the police, because they have to enforce certain things that allow for society to continue on; which, makes certain people unhappy, because they can't do as they please. Therefore, in my opinion, the US is trying to do what is best for the world, but is in turn hated, because of taking on the responsibility of a "policing body."

The police and neither the US is allowed to take action without evidence, and thinking this invasion was out of moral reasons, or national secuirity for the matter - you are wrong. It has been purely about self intrest, a comibnation of oil and a national campaign for bush. If you think the USA invaded Iraq to bring justice to the people of Iraq, you live in your own Utopian world. Anybody who does not suffer from such short-sightedness like President Bush does would have seen this going terribly wrong and people did! The war was veto'd by the Russian Federation in the UN Secuitity Council, is that what a policing state should do? You can't just frown Western values, - or a democracy for the matter upon a country minutes after you have invaded it. A democracy in order to function properly has a few requirements, - otherwise it will go from bad to worse.

Making ANOTHER attack under the rightoussness of the "War on Terror" would be fatal, it would idiocy, moronic and just completly wrong. Sort out yourself first please before frowning yourself upon others.

[Forwyn]

Like I said, Saddam should have been deposed in '91. He attacked both Iran AND Kuwait, and is responsible for over a million deaths in those two wars.

[Melnibone]

All the above points on the war are irrelevant tbh, those of us in the west have economies which run predominantly on fuel of some description from mainly the middle east region. America and the other countries involved notably the UK can not and will not see an anti-west government across the whole region as theoretically the middle east could send most of the developed world back to the dark ages as we currently have no sustainable way of replacing those oil and petrol deposits

For those who bleat about war being wrong and immoral i say stfu every country in the world has been formed as a result of some long forgotten (or very recent) conflict. As for this particular conflict if we do not protect our interests in this region will anyone here go without their car? heating in the winter? hell it could be complete global meltdown and why?? because some maniac leader in the middle east decides hes going to 'show those damn Americans' get a grip people the strong will protect their right to exist as they see fit while the weak will either play along or be crushed

This is not some Utopia this is the real world and for those of us who actually exist in it and not some socially and politically correct fantasy land i understand that war is sometimes not the only option but the best option. The 'lies' from your governments about why we went to war were to protect your poor sensibilities from realising the truth which you cant handle apparently as all you anti war brigade think you can sit and talk things through with a man who will wipe out HIS OWN people for offending him

in short GET A GRIP

rant over

[Nonny]

An empassioned speech to justify pure selfishness and the right of might but it doesn't cut it.

Hussein was never anti-West. The Iranian war you speak of was sponsored by the West, primarily the USA.

Hussein's agenda was never religious, hence the supposed tie with Al Quaeda was a joke. It was pure power.

Was the war in '91 right? Yes. Should we have finished the job? Probably.

Was the last war right? A war against a country to protect oil stocks for the West?!? Rubbish!
Iraq alone does not have enough reserves for that kind of influence and Hussein was isolated from the other Arab States. Therefore a joint 'we aren't selling to you' was a fools nightmare.

What he did do though was start selling his oil in Euros instead of the almighty dollar. I have no doubt that got up Bush's nose, and the thought of other Arab states seeing this and following suit would've have put the White House in a cold sweat. Strangely enough Iraq is selling in dollars again. Was the war cooked up for that reason?
How about because Hussein allegedly tried to have Bush Snr. assassinated for the '91 war? Bush above revenge? The first man in history to declare a policy of using nuclear weapons for a pre-emptive strike!

The only danger to the West is a nutjob in Tehran with nuclear weapons, (ignoring the nutjob in the Whitehouse of course). Good luck mustering the support for that one though from a world distrustful of Washington / London, their objectives and how they go about selling them....

The last Iraq war was an immense bodge job of ludicrous proportions.

Oh, and as for preventing anti-West sentiment being the reason for the war.... yes, the West, USA in particular, is now incredibly popular in the region isn't it..? Where oh where will Al Quaeda and their ilk find recruits now!?

Rant in response over. ;)