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View Full Version : change antirape effectively requires system changes


willymchilybily
16-01-2008, 04:16 PM
this started off as a suggestion reply to this topichttp://www.bushtarion.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=196&st=0&sk=t&sd=a&start=15
but it has other advantages. and reduces the effect of waves and bashing in certain ways. makes fights more fair,possible. and is such a good idea ive made it its own topic. but if an op wants to merge it then do it. but i think it could solve more than one issue.

Does anti-rape as it currently stands simply want re-designing, possibly from the round up? And if so, why & how! This would be long term changes - eg certainly not this round, and maybe not for a few rounds, but it's something I'd like a discussion on.

Currently I have a couple of vague concepts.

Making AR only target "responsible players"
(at least to a degree... eg make them fire at specific ranges)
For example;

Player A sends, ETA 4.
Player B sends, ETA 5.
Player C sends, ETA 5
Player D sends, ETA 6.

Player A is not going to trigger, but players B, C and D will all trigger up until the final tick when only player D remains, which would not warrant a trigger.

Tick 1: Player A attacking range, no AR.
Tick 2: Player A attacking Middle, Players B & C attacking range. AR troops that are "range only" arrive - while they will be targetted by player A's troops, they will only shoot at players B & C.
Tick 3: Player A attacking close, players B & C attacking middle, player D attacking range. Last ticks AR disappears and are replaced by AR troops that fire "Middle & range only" arrive. Player A will be free to steal land unhindered. Players B C & D will all be targetted by these AR troops.
Tick 4: Players B & C attacking close, player D attacking middle. AR troops arrive that fire close and middle range only - all current attackers are targetted by AR.
Tick 5: Player D attacking close, no AR.

Type of AR Units:
I'd also like more of a mix/balance of AR units (eg if you trigger AR and have a lot of lethals, you don't instantly get WTFPwned by an army of SAS first tick), but that's going to need some serious planning as I'd need to consider all of the unit stats currently in the game, and naturally some units will end up being able to fare against AR more than others (it'd be too complicated to have different AR troops arrive based on what kind of troops are attacking, so don't suggest this - other than a basic difference between LET/INN/NLT/NLD etc!).


i think this redesign of antirape is an impossible task as the system stands. lets say you have incoming. Eta 1 is Mr1, Eta 2 is Mr2 and Eta 3 is Mr3. Assume also Mr2 guy will trigger. the eta 1 guy is fine. and eta 3 is fine. eta 2 triggers. currently ar stops the lot. as it see's it as combined.
There was a suggestion to have it stop only the tick at which the ar is triggered. so defend range when Mr2 is at range defend midd when Mr2 is at mid. etc etc. this would allow Mr 3 and Mr 1 to splitt the targets for any units firing all ranges. so in effect any units firing all ranges will split thier fire. being less effective. so combined efforts of Mr1 and Mr3 could help land. something that otherwise could be defended. this is technically bashing rape or could facilitate it in the wrong hands. as its 2 v 1 if done right. and the system wouldnt be able to tell if it was accidental or intentional.

the only way this could work is if we change the system. and a way i propose is when a unit fires you break it down even more. into 3 battles. it shoots close then it shoots middle then it shoots range.(this order is insignnificant) nothing else changes.
the initiative of a unit remains the same as before. a rpg trooper will still be firing before a bunker etc.

but in doing this you can fight waves of people equally as if it were a 1v1 fight. as the only people your fighting are those attacking on a specific tick.

so using the previous example. Mr1 comes first he attacks range you shoot range with the units that are capable of shooting range. nothing different.

Mr 2 comes and hes triggered.

Mr 2 dies to sas horribly but sas only fire range. as rape was only occuring from that enemy. mr 1 and you continue the battle middle tick.
mr 2 is gone mr 1 is attacking close and mr 3 is attacking ranged. you shoot. your units fire in the right order as normal so do you opponents. but the ones that fire at more than one range will shoot 2-3 times. Lets say i had 1mill bunkers and 1mill sentries. they shoot all ticks. but in the example they shoot close,then they shoot ranged(as there are no middle targets to hit as Mr 2 got wiped out). next unit fires. etc etc carries on as normal.

so incomming looks a little like this
35,300,178 attacking for 1 [xxxx] Mr of 1
37,002,000 attacking for 3[xxx] Mr of 3
the battle report would be something like this on the new system

[Close] 1,000,000 allied Bunkers attacked and killed 3,219,203 hostiles
[range]1,000,000 allied Bunkers attacked and killed 1,203,938 hostiles
[close] 1,000,000 aliied Sentry Turrets attacked and killed 32,080,975 hostiles
[range] 1,000,000 allied Sentry Turrets attacked and killed 25,799,062 hostiles
(Mr 3 has 10million survivors and runs away)

now assuming i had no other units for some reason
on the old/current system the combined efforts of Mr1 and Mr3 would look more like this

[r/c] 1,000,000 allied Bunkers attacked and killed 3,532,030 hostiles
[r/c] 1,000,000 aliied Sentry Turrets attacked and killed 32,182,455 hostiles
[close] 30,000 hostile geo-thiefs stole 1,346 acres

as by targeting them as one mass they are able to get through as together they have overpowered the target. and technically both of them together could be raping you but as individuals not rape. so by changing the system we can also change the ar system. to account for rape. it will not ofc be able to stop if some one accidently piggies an attack on the same tick. it still allows alliances to wave attack, the first guy could smash and rape the target. any one following grab land. someone accompanying the first attacker to take care of defenders. the game as a whole has suffered very little side effect.

the change soley affects the ability to re-design the antirape to stop the sas coming when some one "inexperienced" is also attacking the same target. it allows a more 1v1 approach


NB. also classing the government forces as something else like [gov] instead of inn let etc. will stop a person thats attackign targeting them. [well unless they target all. lol. but im sure this could be fixed]

EDIT(added colours to clarify and show the relation between numbers being killed and the incoming, for those that dont know RED+BLUE=PURPLE )

Tim
17-01-2008, 12:07 PM
An interesting idea. I like it. :)

DarkSider
17-01-2008, 12:58 PM
I don't :)
If i understood right you want to change the whole fighting mechanism to work that way for all units, not only government troops.
So that means if you get attacked over 2 ticks and you have the advantage of lower init you have twice the firepower before any enemy fires. In your example with bunkers your 1 mil bunkers and 1 mil sentry deliver the damage of 2 mil each. And the attackers fire only once as you are at your own HQ. The only way this wouldn't be abusable is if the target gets killed before any of it's units fire and take advantage of the double damage :P Hell imagine in a massive war strike with lots of defence and attacks, you want defenders to fire 3 times ?!


Other than that you asume the AR change Azzer was talking about will work the way you described, i don't think it makes sense tho. If Mr1 doesn't trigger, when Mr2 comes it will be calculated the entire force present at the company HQ at that time to see if government defence will be sent only against Mr2. And next tick it's already enough force there to trigger so any extra bit should trigger and defence sent by gov should fire range only until the total army present at company HQ is under triggering score.

willymchilybily
21-01-2008, 12:56 PM
I don't :)
If i understood right you want to change the whole fighting mechanism to work that way for all units, not only government troops.
So that means if you get attacked over 2 ticks and you have the advantage of lower init you have twice the firepower before any enemy fires. In your example with bunkers your 1 mil bunkers and 1 mil sentry deliver the damage of 2 mil each. And the attackers fire only once as you are at your own HQ. The only way this wouldn't be abusable is if the target gets killed before any of it's units fire and take advantage of the double damage :P Hell imagine in a massive war strike with lots of defence and attacks, you want defenders to fire 3 times ?!

.

no you mis interpret. im only changing units that shoot on more than one tick. aka close middle and range.

the units dont get twice the firepower. and it doesnt give an advantage to high init. the only actual change is it can shoot at three different ranges seperately. This doesnt allow any advantage to attacks or defence as it is the same for both attacking and defence

<IF YOU LOOKED AT THE EXAMPLE HE SHOT ONCE AT EACH INCOMING>

you only shoot once. but you shoot all three ranges. the br only shows what you hit. so my bunkers will fire range then middle then close. not all together.

ITS TO STOP UNINTENTIONAL WAVING EFFECTING PLAY AND IN THIS WAY ALLOW THE ANTI RAPE TO ONLY TARGET THE PERSON IN A WAVE ATTACK THAT TRIGGERS!

It also stops the ability to send flack to help some one that is attacking for 3. (flack=gard eta2 arrives last tick) because your units attack the person that would be attacking for 1 and the person that would be attacking for three and sent all the flack. And it attacks them seperately because they arrive on different ticks.
THE ONLY CHANGE IS OVERWHELMING NUMBERS TO SPLIT FIRE IS NO LONGER AS EFFECTIVE UNLESS SENT ALL AT THE SAME TICK. have another look at my first post. if you still dont understand ill edit it and repost

it doesnt effect allie play to much. it can stop people spreading out thier attacks such as three people back to back sending overwhelming forces. but an attackers and defenders units fire the same range the same targets at the same init. they just fire 3 times at the three ranges.

there is no advantage. how do you abuse this system. give me an example and explanation so i fully comprehend your reasoning. because As far as i can tell this could solve the ar problem this topic relates to.

The only issue i see is land grabs for an allaince. No longer can a weaker member of an attacking alliance hide between two larger members, and hope to take some land. especially when attacking an alliance whose defending units shoots all ranges. They need to be accompanied or carried. this means someone has to be willing to help the smaller/weaker member by attacking on the same tick, and then they split the land gains however they decide. but they cant both get the full 15% as they will land on the same tick. This is the only change to actual game play.