Strange moderating

[Enrico]

I posted a legit suggestion on the suggestion board, absolutely free of any flamebait or inappropriate language, and one moderator moves it to spam?

I thought the suggestion board was for suggestions meant to improve the game?

As for me reposting, it was just that when I didn't find the thread to add further comments, I thought I, as I have done earlier, had just pressed preview instead of posting.

I will not repost the suggestion here, but I have notified Azzer of this, as I find it hillarious that a moderator moves a suggestion from suggestions to spam, and not even notifying the original poster!

If the said moderator disagree with the suggestion he could freely post a reply, rather than do what he did. Ironically it just puts my original post in perspective.


EDIT/Ammendum:
Now Garrett informed me that everything regarding the said subject of the original thread should be dealt with per PM, but that is not mentioned anywhere I could find. And the moderator in question could as easily have just replied with that information and if need be closed the thread, rather than move it....
---

[DarkSider]

All this pressure on moderators it's rather childish imho. They get nothing in return, they're willing to invest some of their time and effort to look over the forums and often they're thrown **** at like nazis etc doesn't matter if you don't agree with one of them they are all useless.

If somebody doesn't agree with one action than find a moderator to ask or message Azzer about the possible abuse. You and others want to be mods to improve the forums ? I don't like to be rude without a reason but if you think a bit you ain't even a mod and all you guys do is try to start riots and fill the forums with bs threads in the name of a campaign to make it a better place.

The mods aren't perfect and never will, their decisions might often be different to yours but i'm sure that you can find more subtle and friendly ways to contradict and question one action than start all this propaganda against all the nazi mods/ops all the time you don't like something.

[Azzer]

A thread, posted in the suggestions part of the forums, that contains nothing but;


.as Azzer closed the thread in gripes, I bringeth the obvious solution to poor moderating here: Make Enrico a moderator!

*cue applause and jubilation*


Is not anything but spam. And if it was actually, by the remotest smidgen margin of some weird alien planet, actually serious, then a moderator that request to become a moderator in such a way would likely not make a very good moderator - any sensible person would have PM'ed me asking if I was looking for any new moderators, giving me a bit of information on themselves, their skills, past experience, and why they wanted to become a mod, and hope for the best. Not created a public thread on the section of the forums designed for players to discuss amongst themselves and get feedback and brainstorm with eachother on ideas for the game.

And it has to be said... a potential "future moderator" wouldn't be the sort of person to post a spam thread and then actually be suprised enough that it got moderated to create a further thread on the subject in the gripes forum...

So, nyer nyer :P

[harriergirl]

All this pressure on moderators it's rather childish imho. They get nothing in return, they're willing to invest some of their time and effort to look over the forums and often they're thrown **** at like nazis etc doesn't matter if you don't agree with one of them they are all useless.

If somebody doesn't agree with one action than find a moderator to ask or message Azzer about the possible abuse. You and others want to be mods to improve the forums ? I don't like to be rude without a reason but if you think a bit you ain't even a mod and all you guys do is try to start riots and fill the forums with bs threads in the name of a campaign to make it a better place.

The mods aren't perfect and never will, their decisions might often be different to yours but i'm sure that you can find more subtle and friendly ways to contradict and question one action than start all this propaganda against all the nazi mods/ops all the time you don't like something.


DS your problem would be solved if Azzer had concrete rules instead of the ones written in silly putty. and its not one action it's a series and pattern of behavior that has pervaded throughout the years.

regardless of the Nyer Nyers. The playerbase has cried out for years for more consistency and honesty regarding the rules and we are continually handed a limp dick and told to go play with it.

[Enrico]

All this pressure on moderators it's rather childish imho. They get nothing in return, they're willing to invest some of their time and effort to look over the forums and often they're thrown **** at like nazis etc doesn't matter if you don't agree with one of them they are all useless.

If somebody doesn't agree with one action than find a moderator to ask or message Azzer about the possible abuse. You and others want to be mods to improve the forums ? I don't like to be rude without a reason but if you think a bit you ain't even a mod and all you guys do is try to start riots and fill the forums with bs threads in the name of a campaign to make it a better place.

The mods aren't perfect and never will, their decisions might often be different to yours but i'm sure that you can find more subtle and friendly ways to contradict and question one action than start all this propaganda against all the nazi mods/ops all the time you don't like something.

DS I see you take my post in the worst opinion.

I just believe any and all moderators should be at least a bit service minded? It would have been very easy for the moderator in question just to correct me on a PM, and delete the whole thread, rather than moving it, with out saying anything.

And I have apologized for the subsequent double post, I honestly believed I had pressed preview rather than post, as that has happened before.

Lets not make this into a specific case, its the whole concept of moderating with a friendly smile, and a good tone I sometimes feel is missing.

I have personaly worked as a moderator on one of Norway's largest news forums, (vg.transact.no) for some years and believe you me, I know tempers can get flared, but never the less, it doesn't hurt to keep a friendly tone. Moderators have an important job to do, and they are only human, but the same can be said of football referees. :)

[Crumpet]

It's ok, Enrico. I've made a few posts after some mods that just didn't like what I had to say and they have been deleted when they were free of anything negative about the game or any player.

Simply just stating my mind in a constructive manor and all they seem to care about atm is what is on their minds and stop all other peoples points of views that aren't sitting well with their own.

Unfortunately that's just the way it goes in any game and in the end you just kinda of have to deal with it. We can complain all we want but in the end we don't have the power so it's best to let them go about their ways and just keep things to yourself about such matters. Save a load of trouble in the end.

And I wouldn't say the rules are set in "putty" either HG. All rules need to have some give and take because there are plenty of ways around rules. Some things are a bit more loose than others but you can't be too firm or too soft which is why the term "Putty" may not be a bad thing in some cases. It sets a balance to everything that is needed.

I think it's more of taking advantage of a power given to people that should be a bit more open to all the shades of gray instead of just seeing it in their own worlds of black and white. Being able to listen and judge a situation without letting personal feelings/ideas get in the way is what makes someone good staff in a game/forum. These things also take time those of us without the power just need to let the new people in these power positions time to find their balance.

[Enrico]

And i still don't get why it was "spammy"... I didn't critique the existing moderators or try to start an argument. It was a honest suggestion, that my services were available, and Garretts reply in the original thread was informative enough.

[Azzer]

regardless of the Nyer Nyers. The playerbase has cried out for years for more consistency and honesty regarding the rules and we are continually handed a limp dick and told to go play with it.

One thing I've never understood is... you sometimes sound like you love rules you think rules should be adhered you hate the idea of no rules and inconsistancies, and yet...

http://www.bushtarion.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1547
"10.1 - Spam is considered to be repetitive posting of the same text again and again or nonsensical posts that have no substance...."

And yet when a moderator moderated out posts that were nonsensical/had no substance on this thread;
http://www.bushtarion.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2709

(which I have since re-allowed, as they were good humoured/good natured and not ruining the thread, and I've spoken to the mod that did it too, and posted a thread in the moderator forums giving some more guidance as to when to apply the spam rule, and when not to apply it, to help allow for "humour"), your comment was;

"and deleting the coloured posts, no matter how childish they were, was overzealous. "

You see it's all well and good having rules, but let's be honest, the majority of the time it makes far more sense for people to use common-sense, judgement, and experience, than to rely on rules... great example above is when the rules were followed but this was bad, and a bit of human nature was needed instead.

I would rather have consistantly human moderators, than constantly robotic moderators that follow rules because players cry out for rules and enforcements. Robot moderators would be nazi moderators (look at Squiffy ;) ) :P

On another note, the currently active moderators that are able to cope with moderating without having "Moderator rules", have settled in great... it's rare anything crops up anymore, and for some moderators nothing bad has ever cropped up, they've simply modded to a way that suits the mood of the forums and the playerbase... which goes to show not every moderator needs to have their hands held and strict rules to follow to make a good moderator! I guess some people need rules, some can just cope with common-sense... and the ones that can't cope with common sense will get weeded out of the staff over time and as the community demands :D

[Garrett]

the moderator in question could as easily have just replied with that information and if need be closed the thread, rather than move it....

this is the only thing i want to touch on in this thread. if a newbie went on the same train of thought as Enrico (about any subject), then instead of getting any response/notification they come back one day and can't find their thread or find it in spam... so they are like wtf? why is my stuff automatically moved to spam? and then walk away and never post again.

all I'm saying is that there are some rough edges and user unfriendliness (like can we get a link back to the game somewhere on the index page? or have i gone blind and totally missed it? is it possible to do that with vbulletin or maybe set a daily event reminder and put in the URL to bush?) that could use some smoothing out.

I believe the big mod recruitment thingie was a sticky and then either deleted or went away? so there is no actual post or direction on how to apply for forum mod or any other type of position (helper, op, etc)

I think some assumptions are being taken for granted and I believe it to be an honest mistake. So that's why I just want to say that I agree that forums is an area that could use some polishing. I'm trying to help by cleaning up my own behavior. I don't think that some folks, like Enrico, come here to gripe because they are trying to tear anything down... he gripes because he cares about the game and is confused. Please help end some of the confusion by working on some of the smaller finer details. You don't even personally have to write them. Get the staff to come up with some definitions together as a team, and then you put your say on it. That way you delegate to them while you still get to ensure it's proper. Everyone posting here may know 'english' to a passable extent, but even between american and queens english grammar sometimes gets lost in translation.

/steps away from podium, sorry.

[harriergirl]

On another note, the currently active moderators that are able to cope with moderating without having "Moderator rules", have settled in great... it's rare anything crops up anymore, and for some moderators nothing bad has ever cropped up, they've simply modded to a way that suits the mood of the forums and the playerbase... which goes to show not every moderator needs to have their hands held and strict rules to follow to make a good moderator! I guess some people need rules, some can just cope with common-sense... and the ones that can't cope with common sense will get weeded out of the staff over time and as the community demands :D


/me sighs. You really don't understand me at all Azzer. I want to say upfront that I'm not upset or raving or ranting, merely explaining.

It's not that I don't like rules. As a player, I don't agree with all the little "petty" rules that this forum has so when I see a moderation I disagree with, especially taking into consideration YOUR want to have leniency... Then yes in that instance .. the moderation of the colours was overzealous. Even though I personally felt that the Need of the people who posted in colour was petty and childish in regards to Blackwolfs fair question. Furthermore, it wasn't until someone else pointed out that it was against the rules that it was moderated. So yes I still feel that the action was overzealous.

However, I will say as I have a million times over and you still refuse to hear it. There has to be a better balance than what there is now between having rules that are only followed at whim (Which I think most of the americans and some aussies will agree that they are) And having an expected and known response to the breaking of a rule, which involves discipline.

I like how you throw in that little backhanded jab there about people needing thier hands to be held and how people with no common sense are weeded out. Once again you show your lack of people skills and your ever present rapier sarcasm. Those are excellent customer service qualities btw.

I sent my personal opinion of your posts to you via forum report. I will not argue with you here anymore, but I will continue to defend myself and state my opinion respectfully.

PS Squiffy is the fairest op we have. People know better than to break her rules or argue with her as well.

[Azzer]

And i still don't get why it was "spammy"... I didn't critique the existing moderators or try to start an argument. It was a honest suggestion, that my services were available, and Garretts reply in the original thread was informative enough.

As posted to you in a PM - sorry for the confusion but the nature and style of your thread, the way it was worded, everything about it just made it look like it was nothing more than a light-hearted/good natured "joke thread" - something that belongs in spam really than taking up a full suggestions forum thread. From the light-hearted comments like "*cue applause and jubilation*" to the actual suggestion wording itself "I bringeth the obvious solution to poor moderating here: Make Enrico a moderator!"... you can't honestly blame anyone for assuming your thread was just a light-spirited joke/bit of humour, and thus spammed it? :P

[snip]

You hit the nail on the head regarding "rules" - they shouldn't be black and white, they should just be something that can be interpreted by humans, for humans. Hell, it's why despite having reams of laws in western society, we still have a process of courts and jury's - rather than just a "you did this sort of crime so you get this specific pre-set punishment"... it's a process that works for eal life, let alone a virtual forums! :D

As for having posts of yours moderated/deleted "just because the moderators didn't like what they contained" - I can't stress this enough... if you've actually had a post unfairly edited, please, please PM me the details - as it stands I can't see anything from a scan of the logs where your posts have been deleted (though it's hard to search the logs for a specific target of moderator actions... the mod logs are designed for me to quickly look up the actions of a specific mod, rather than the targets of any mod... so I could well have missed anything!). Seriously - if people don't report such things to me, then there's no way of me knowing it exists, and there's nothing I can do to the moderators to prevent it happening again. If you really genuinely have had something edited/deleted out that was not breaking any forum rules, and you know a mod just removed it to abuse their power/cos they disliked you - then PM me the details, you and I cannot and must not let moderators get away with things like that, if it's actually happening... but keeping it quiet and then making a general "oh yes the moderators do evil things and can't be trusted I've seen it happen with my own eyes" is just no good, we can't fix anything, we don't know who's doing it, and before you know it you've got a wild conspiracy where all the users think every single moderator is absolutely corrupt to the core because they saw some users posting things like "oh yes those evil mods delete my posts for no reason".

snip

I agree it was overzealous... it was very Squiffy like and fair and rules-worthy... but over-zealous and un-necessary - agree with your opinion on that issue, and I dealt with the issue, spoke to the mod, and it shouldn'#t happen again (and if it does then we have an issue that needs dealing with in a stronger way! ;) ). As for rules being followed at a whim... there's two invaluable tools available to players, when not abused;

* Report tool. If something hasn't been dealt with by a mdoerator, that should be dealt with, you can report it. This report goes to all moderators including myself. Every moderator will sooner or later (usually sooner - when they next log on) look at this report, and if it's not already been dealt with, make a decision on it... and if it has already been dealt with, can give their opinion on the handling of the situation, if they disagree with the handling. This means that nothing can be ignored by choosy mods - everything ultimately can be seen by all mods. If something is reported and nothing is still done - you can assume all the mods decided that it was within forum rules/allowable. If you feel strongly enough on the issue, you can PM me the problem and let me know what rules it's breaking/why it needs dealing with, and I can step in as a moderator myself, if necessary - or at least let you know why it wasn't moderated (ie - if it was too light/too small/was within rules and ok).

* Complaining about a moderator. If something HAS been dealt with by a moderator, and you don't like the way it was dealt with (unfair, nazi like, a mod abusing their powers because of personal dislike of another user/to cover up what another user is trying to say), PM me, and preferably as quickly as possible, giving as much details on the issue as possible.

What more balance could you hope for that a set of "rules" for the moderators could bring, especially given that "rules" of even these very forums themselves for the users aren't necessary to be followed - because sometimes those rules are only necessary for really bad/extreme cases, not every single case (eg the colours thread), and when bad/extreme cases aren't handled properly, you've got the two options above as users of the forums yourselves, to help bring balance if the moderators don't manage to balance it.

I meant no backhand to you - I was genuinely being general and making a point that the current mods seem to be coping without any "Mod rules". By assuming otherwise, we would be saying that the current set of mods are falling apart and doing a hopeless job because they don't have rules - and I wanted to make the point for the opposite - they're coping just fine without rules, but not everyone copes fine, naturally - and rather than think we need rules for those that don't cope fine, we can instead assume those that don't cope fine simply aren't up to the task.

And Squiffy - while fair - is one hell of a nazi. It's only lucky it's not set up to it's full capabilities - I've had to request no amount of "tonings down" of it's rules because the original ruleset had it banning people regularly for long periods for minor things. It did it consistantly, it did it by following the rules, and it was one horrific nazi op. Most of it's power and things it "ops for" have been removed/stripped down heavily, so it's more bark than bite now, but still got quite a nazi streak to it's bark. Robotic following of rules is bad bad bad.

To sum up though - if you think the current set of mods are doing rather hopelessly/failing to moderate these forums, then why not come up with - or work with some other forum users who feel the same way so you all only have a little bit of work each - come up with a set of "Moderator rules" that you think would improve the quality of our moderators, help them in their job, and help keep these forums a better place. If these rules would alter what the current mods are doing, then we can see what people think about them... if we look at the rules and go "actually, if they followed these, they'd never be able to moderate anything/they'd be total nazis", we can assume them to be un-necessary... and if we see that the mods are actually already doing what these rules dictate anyway, then again we know they just weren't needed. And even with rules, if there really is a nazi mod - a set of written rules won't stop them being a nazi and strictly following the forum rules (eg: colour thread)... we still need a set of humans at the end of the day :P

[Enrico]

Even if it had been a joke, why would it be deemed "not relevant to bushtarion" and thus relegated to spam? Again a bit of fuzzy boundaries imho.

Anyways, I replied to the PM, just PM me a briad outline of what you need /want to know, and I will try my est to be "amazingly spectacular" in my replies. ;)

[Azzer]

Even if it had been a joke, why would it be deemed "not relevant to bushtarion" and thus relegated to spam? Again a bit of fuzzy boundaries imho.

Anyways, I replied to the PM, just PM me a briad outline of what you need /want to know, and I will try my est to be "amazingly spectacular" in my replies. ;)

You're acting suprised now that even a joke thread in the suggestions forum would be relegated to spam? A joke thread in the suggestions forum would be relegated to spam because joke threads in "serious parts of the forum" clog up the forums, especially in a busy forum area like suggestions where it's important for me to read and see all suggestions by players. It's why we have a set of forum rules on spam, why we have a special spam sub-forum for "silly fun", and why we have seperate forum sections at all... Do you perhaps think joke threads should be allowed anywhere? :P

[Garrett]

So Azzer, a penguin and Larry Flynt roll into a bar....

[Azzer]

So Azzer, a penguin and Larry Flynt roll into a bar....

Garrett... You're fired.

http://www.talkbackthames.tv/imageContent/real/image_108_18.jpg

[Garrett]

fine i won't finish it then :(

[Enrico]

Even if it had been a joke, why would it be deemed "not relevant to bushtarion" and thus relegated to spam? Again a bit of fuzzy boundaries imho.

Anyways, I replied to the PM, just PM me a briad outline of what you need /want to know, and I will try my est to be "amazingly spectacular" in my replies. ;)

You're acting suprised now that even a joke thread in the suggestions forum would be relegated to spam? A joke thread in the suggestions forum would be relegated to spam because joke threads in "serious parts of the forum" clog up the forums, especially in a busy forum area like suggestions where it's important for me to read and see all suggestions by players. It's why we have a set of forum rules on spam, why we have a special spam sub-forum for "silly fun", and why we have seperate forum sections at all... Do you perhaps think joke threads should be allowed anywhere? :P

Nope, I think non sequiteurs can be deleted, and when in doubt, ask the poster.
Which is what in my view the moderator in point should have done all along.

And to quote the great dane Piet Hein: "Those who just see jokes as jokes, and seriousness just as seriousness, has understood both parts rather poorly"

But we are off on a tanget here.

Just to reiterate, I did not want to imply that the current moderators do a poor job, just that I think I can bring something that per now is somewhat lacking, i.e. service mindedness, and a smile. :)

[Cheese]

You may think you would be a good moderator Enrico yet you've already proven in my honest opinion that you wouldn't be.

1) You posted spam outside of the spam forum.
2) You cried about a moderators decision publically
3) You double posted ((a good moderator would use the edit button) and I am refering to the start of this thread))
4) After a topic has been moved to PM by the Forum Administrator you continue to push publically

That's 4 points based purely on 24hours.


Now reference to your final post:
Your suggestion of moderators asking a poster if their post is spam? I mean seriously are you really that stupid. How many people in the world will openly admit to breaking a rule when asked?

"Excuse me I wasn't fully sure if you shat on my dog, did you?"
"No mate."
"Oh ok. Sorry to bother you"

Doesn't work

As you like summarising your posts heres a summary for you:

Enrico as moderator = No no no.

[Alcibiades]

fine i won't finish it then :(


*clamours to hear the rest of the joke*

[harriergirl]

....

Now reference to your final post:
Your suggestion of moderators asking a poster if their post is spam? I mean seriously are you really that stupid. How many people in the world will openly admit to breaking a rule when asked?

"Excuse me I wasn't fully sure if you shat on my dog, did you?"
"No mate."
"Oh ok. Sorry to bother you"

Doesn't work


Actually with a little application of that common sense and non nazi like humanity, it does work because the conversation is seldom that simple.

excuse me, the moderation team believe your post is a bit spammy can you give me a reason to keep it open?

- OH I want to mod/op

Oh wellthen a better idea would be to send a list of your qualifications in a pm to Azzer, I'll go ahead and delete this for now

- Ah great thanks, go ahead and delete my post :) <----- enrico's scenario

- No man don't delete my post, I want to be op.......<-----Cheese's scenario.

i'm srry you feel that way , but azzer prefers this kind of stuff be kept to pm , <--- proper mod response

It's not that hard really.

[Garrett]

83

for nao, lets leave it at choose your own caption/adventure :D

[tobapopalos]

All this pressure on moderators it's rather childish imho. They get nothing in return, they're willing to invest some of their time and effort to look over the forums and often they're thrown **** at like nazis etc doesn't matter if you don't agree with one of them they are all useless.

If somebody doesn't agree with one action than find a moderator to ask or message Azzer about the possible abuse. You and others want to be mods to improve the forums ? I don't like to be rude without a reason but if you think a bit you ain't even a mod and all you guys do is try to start riots and fill the forums with bs threads in the name of a campaign to make it a better place.

The mods aren't perfect and never will, their decisions might often be different to yours but i'm sure that you can find more subtle and friendly ways to contradict and question one action than start all this propaganda against all the nazi mods/ops all the time you don't like something.

DarkSider strikes again. This post pretty much sums up my views on the situation. For the love of God, people, find something else to moan about.

[Enrico]

You may think you would be a good moderator Enrico yet you've already proven in my honest opinion that you wouldn't be.

1) You posted spam outside of the spam forum.
2) You cried about a moderators decision publically
3) You double posted ((a good moderator would use the edit button) and I am refering to the start of this thread))
4) After a topic has been moved to PM by the Forum Administrator you continue to push publically

That's 4 points based purely on 24hours.


1. Well the point was that the whole thread was not meant as spam, but as a serious suggestion. Hence the controversy, as it was an honest mistake that the moderator, using a modicum of fingerspitzgefühl could have solved.

2. No, I did not, as I never raised the actually specific topic, rather it was an attempt to point out how the moderators could and should use a bit friendlier tone, and actually inform a poster of why a post has been moved/deleted, when it is quite clear the post is wrongly placed not out of spit.

3. Editing would have made little sense. The second post is to stop people reiterating information I had then received. And where in the EULA is doubleposting prohibited. pointless *bumping* of threads is prohibited, ut the thread was still the top one when the second post was made.

4. No, I did not, I did not get a reply from the moderator in question until after I had made the thread. And the whole point of the thread was not "OMFG the Mods are evil nazis" but rather: "Why arn't the mods more serviceminded and friendly?" and not linked to the spesific topic




Now reference to your final post:
Your suggestion of moderators asking a poster if their post is spam? I mean seriously are you really that stupid. How many people in the world will openly admit to breaking a rule when asked?

"Excuse me I wasn't fully sure if you shat on my dog, did you?"
"No mate."
"Oh ok. Sorry to bother you"

Doesn't work

As you like summarising your posts heres a summary for you:

Enrico as moderator = No no no.


No, I suggest the same as Harriergirl posted as a suggestion: That a moderator informs a poster when he moves a thread, or for that matter deletes a thread. And if the poster transgressed in some way, points out the way.

(I.e. a first time poster posting a recruitment thread in the general section could be told a) that the thread is moves and b) what people usually need of information.)

And technically I am an moderator and have been for years, the question would be if I was to be a moderator HERE or not. But that is not something for public dicussion, I have learnt. :)

[Weeble]

The amount of times a day we have to hide posts would make sending a message to each user very time consuming. We, the moderators, act as if the rest of the userbase has a little commonsense and should be able to know when and why a post of theirs might have been hidden or moved.

When posts are moved, it's fairly obvious where they've gone.

Similarly, many people who post 'spam' posts do so unintentionally. Ie they think they're making a valid point, but fail to see that the post is in fact unrelated to the topic, or spammy. This is one of the reasons your 'suggestion' was moved to Spam, it contained no real substance and for all intents and purposes, was spam.


If a post is really on left field, or is bordering on official warning material, moderators will send the user a PM telling them to watch their step, or to go away and take a breather before posting again. Users are always informed when a post is so outrageous it necessitates immediate moderation.

People need to remember that we all have lives as well; we cannot sit at the computer 24 hours a day moderating and sending messages to everyone. We assume some level of intelligence from everyone that they will follow the rules and not make an utter fuss when something doesn't go their way; in some ways this may be the wrong thing to do, but it's how we operate.

There's only so much crap we can take before we detach ourselves from the humanity of the job and moderate without feeling, which would involve not talking to users and not giving them unofficial warnings before proceeding further, jumping instantly to official warnings and infractions. Something that we're all trying to avoid.

[Enrico]

Well, the problem with that approach Weeble is that a poster, especially a new poster, easily can start wondering if they see there thread is gone, with no indication of where it went. Personally I never use the Spam section so I would never have thought to look there.

And I still don't get what is so spammy by putting one names forward, when Azzer in another thread, (The now locked one stated by bubbles), indicated he might reevaluate the current set of moderators, as some seem to never be online.

[Cheese]

You may think you would be a good moderator Enrico yet you've already proven in my honest opinion that you wouldn't be.

1) You posted spam outside of the spam forum.
2) You cried about a moderators decision publically
3) You double posted ((a good moderator would use the edit button) and I am refering to the start of this thread))
4) After a topic has been moved to PM by the Forum Administrator you continue to push publically

That's 4 points based purely on 24hours.


1. Well the point was that the whole thread was not meant as spam, but as a serious suggestion. Hence the controversy, as it was an honest mistake that the moderator, using a modicum of fingerspitzgefühl could have solved.

2. No, I did not, as I never raised the actually specific topic, rather it was an attempt to point out how the moderators could and should use a bit friendlier tone, and actually inform a poster of why a post has been moved/deleted, when it is quite clear the post is wrongly placed not out of spit.

3. Editing would have made little sense. The second post is to stop people reiterating information I had then received. And where in the EULA is doubleposting prohibited. pointless *bumping* of threads is prohibited, ut the thread was still the top one when the second post was made.

4. No, I did not, I did not get a reply from the moderator in question until after I had made the thread. And the whole point of the thread was not "OMFG the Mods are evil nazis" but rather: "Why arn't the mods more serviceminded and friendly?" and not linked to the spesific topic




Now reference to your final post:
Your suggestion of moderators asking a poster if their post is spam? I mean seriously are you really that stupid. How many people in the world will openly admit to breaking a rule when asked?

"Excuse me I wasn't fully sure if you shat on my dog, did you?"
"No mate."
"Oh ok. Sorry to bother you"

Doesn't work

As you like summarising your posts heres a summary for you:

Enrico as moderator = No no no.


No, I suggest the same as Harriergirl posted as a suggestion: That a moderator informs a poster when he moves a thread, or for that matter deletes a thread. And if the poster transgressed in some way, points out the way.

(I.e. a first time poster posting a recruitment thread in the general section could be told a) that the thread is moves and b) what people usually need of information.)

And technically I am an moderator and have been for years, the question would be if I was to be a moderator HERE or not. But that is not something for public dicussion, I have learnt. :)

1) A good moderator knows what is spam and what isn't yours as everybody but you agrees was.

2) Get real, how many posts have you made on this matter? Answer: too many. And yet again a good moderator would know to deal with this matter in pm

3) A good moderator would understand the rules of the forum they are moderatoring:
10.2 – Bumping threads in order to keep them near the top of the list is prohibited. Posts of this nature are not conducive to community spirit and are unwelcome. This is from the forum rules which supprise supprise are where the rules for the forum apply.

(Do you see a patern appearing here? A good moderator would and you wouldn't :o )

4) Reread what I put... The forum administrator took the matter to pm where on earth do I say anything about moderators? Answer: No where. Look back in this post because I've handed everything else clear and simple for you might aswell give you something to do... Azzer specifically says to you he has pm'd you bla bla bla yet you continue to fight publically. Summary: not moderator material.


Your idea is like communism, works well on paper, fails miserably when put into action.

Few more reasons for you why your brilliant theory wouldn't work:
1) Moderators moderate a large number of posts a day, they don't have time to wait for a reply from somebody before they moderate a thread.
2) It doesn't look good seeing rubbish in the wrong section
3) 99 out of 100 people aint going to admit to being in the wrong (you may use yourself as an example of 1 Enrico)


When somebody is obviously new to the forum then I agree moderatoring a post and a quick mail to explain whats happened and refer them to the rules would be useful but when it concerns somebody who's been in the community for a long time and applying to be a moderator (sorry I have to pause, that makes me laugh too much when I type it)

And big wow you moderate a forum and you have done for years, clearly you can't do the job well, need a reason? Have 4 (see above).

And as a summary as you clearly need things simple:
- Forum rules suprisingly apply to the forum
- Communism fails
- Moderating another forum means nothing
- Review your job as moderator on this magical other forum if you are doing the same on that forum as this then you aint got a clue how to moderate.
- Enrico as moderator = No No No.

[BlackWolf]

the moderator in question could as easily have just replied with that information and if need be closed the thread, rather than move it....

this is the only thing i want to touch on in this thread. if a newbie went on the same train of thought as Enrico (about any subject), then instead of getting any response/notification they come back one day and can't find their thread or find it in spam... so they are like wtf? why is my stuff automatically moved to spam? and then walk away and never post again.

all I'm saying is that there are some rough edges and user unfriendliness (like can we get a link back to the game somewhere on the index page? or have i gone blind and totally missed it? is it possible to do that with vbulletin or maybe set a daily event reminder and put in the URL to bush?) that could use some smoothing out.

I believe the big mod recruitment thingie was a sticky and then either deleted or went away? so there is no actual post or direction on how to apply for forum mod or any other type of position (helper, op, etc)

I think some assumptions are being taken for granted and I believe it to be an honest mistake. So that's why I just want to say that I agree that forums is an area that could use some polishing. I'm trying to help by cleaning up my own behavior. I don't think that some folks, like Enrico, come here to gripe because they are trying to tear anything down... he gripes because he cares about the game and is confused. Please help end some of the confusion by working on some of the smaller finer details. You don't even personally have to write them. Get the staff to come up with some definitions together as a team, and then you put your say on it. That way you delegate to them while you still get to ensure it's proper. Everyone posting here may know 'english' to a passable extent, but even between american and queens english grammar sometimes gets lost in translation.

/steps away from podium, sorry.
Sums up what I think perfectly. Garret your my hero... I am so happy of this new style of yours... You make me smile every day.
Marry me!

Yeah on real deal why was my post deleted in general discussion? Well actually I dont care why it was deleted... I just would EXPECT to be notified that someone has edited/deleted/moved my post in any thread without my permission. If I broke rules I want a warning, if my actions were not that bad to deserve warning I would expect to get notification... Have I ever got one? No. We never get any kind of service from mods not on IRC not on forums. Service is like a word never heard. Where has "treat others like you would like to be treated" gone?

It cant be that big deal to post person whos stuff you move/delete that you have done so. It can be even done to multiple people with simple copy paste in matter of minute(s). That is what is called good service and friendliness... then these mods wonder why they are treated as they are... Well I dont wonder. You get treated as you ask to be treated.

On top of that what happens next? This person who has been treated like **** comes here and complains and gets peed on by both mods and Azzer cause he went public with this stuff and didnt handle it in shadows.

Makes me wonder sometimes why people even uses these forums anymore.

[Weeble]

A number of times the moderators have had to deal with newcomers to the forum posting things in the wrong section (etc), and nearly every time we have also sent the user a message, pointing them to the rules and explaining why any action was taken, in a friendly manner. No (un)official warnings, infractions, just a friendly message asking them to read and understand the rules so that they can comprehend why their post was erroneous.
Please don't banter on about things you don't fully know!

With regards to staff applications, I believe Azzer has said before that anyone that wishes to apply for a Bushtarion staff position is welcome to PM him, even if he's not *actually* officially recruiting at the moment. The application will be saved and used for future reference if needed. At the moment, as Azzer stated earlier, he is not currently looking for any extra staff.

As a side, Garrett there is a link to Bushtarion in the bottom right (it's there as that's just the style of this forum skin!).

I'd just like to point out as well that we (the moderators) try to be as friendly as we can in all matters, but you do have to understand that we're all human. We can be carried by emotions, and sometimes that shows through in our replies to PMs, etc. If someone pushes enough buttons they're bound to end up hitting the one that controls the nuke.

[Ahead]

I haven't read the whole second page of this thread, but I'd like to point out some "Strange Moderating" that I have experienced, and prove several of your points wrong.

I got a 3 point infraction for a joke mail to DA. Martin and Polo who are both mods said they wouldn't have given it a 3 point infraction as it was clearly written in good humour.

I got a 6 point infraction for "Serious Disregard for forum users" <-- firstly wtf is that?! Secondly all I did was flame Davis a bit because his post was badly structured and was off topic and wholly incorrect. Tbh it could have even been considered spam, so I like to think I would doing the moderators job for them.

3 points for "Stalking" - mentioning the DA award in several posts, but only where it fitted the content of the post.

That's not even all of them.

[lavadog]

Seriously, if someone can link me to a forum of considerable size where the mods notify the poster of every single post they move/delete, they get twelve cookies and the thirteenth for free.

Stop crying that you don't get "service" or that people are "touching your property without your consent" (sounds dirty, doesn't it). Mods have a certain authority and shouldn't be forced to explain their every action as long as they act along the rules of the boards. They should only do that when people commit major infractions (like the TBA flame wars which were filled with loads of unneeded personal attacks and the likes). If you think mods should mail you with every little thing they do to your posts, you obviously don't have much experience with forums of considerable size, let alone mod-ing them, or you don't have a clue how much time that would take away from the actual mod-ing. Mod-ing is still 90% about making sure the forums are clean (bar the odd joke, which is perfectly fine imo), they're not just here to make you feel all warm and fuzzy inside.

As far as asking a member if he feels his post is not in tune with the rules, that's just ridiculous. Look at them sort of as the police. The cops don't ask you if stealing is wrong, they tell you it's wrong and act accordingly. Likewise, mods decide if you broke the rules, since that is exactly their job. Problems => PM, which brings me to my next point.

Accusing mods publicly achieves nothing but two things: A) you make them afraid of mod-ing these boards like they should, because it may cause a public backlash for them, and B) everyone jumps the bandwagon, making it only harder for the mods to do their job. Having these discussions for everyone to see is quite counterproductive as to what you hope to achieve.

My 2 cents, had some more but I forgot while typing this up :P

[BlackWolf]

Seriously, if someone can link me to a forum of considerable size where the mods notify the poster of every single post they move/delete, they get twelve cookies and the thirteenth for free.

Stop crying that you don't get "service" or that people are "touching your property without your consent" (sounds dirty, doesn't it). Mods have a certain authority and shouldn't be forced to explain their every action as long as they act along the rules of the boards. They should only do that when people commit major infractions (like the TBA flame wars which were filled with loads of unneeded personal attacks and the likes). If you think mods should mail you with every little thing they do to your posts, you obviously don't have much experience with forums of considerable size, let alone mod-ing them, or you don't have a clue how much time that would take away from the actual mod-ing. Mod-ing is still 90% about making sure the forums are clean (bar the odd joke, which is perfectly fine imo), they're not just here to make you feel all warm and fuzzy inside.

As far as asking a member if he feels his post is not in tune with the rules, that's just ridiculous. Look at them sort of as the police. The cops don't ask you if stealing is wrong, they tell you it's wrong and act accordingly. Likewise, mods decide if you broke the rules, since that is exactly their job. Problems => PM, which brings me to my next point.

Accusing mods publicly achieves nothing but two things: A) you make them afraid of mod-ing these boards like they should, because it may cause a public backlash for them, and B) everyone jumps the bandwagon, making it only harder for the mods to do their job. Having these discussions for everyone to see is quite counterproductive as to what you hope to achieve.

My 2 cents, had some more but I forgot while typing this up :P
If you would know of other boards then you wouldnt post stuff like this. On a lot lot more active and bigger boards moderators are divided to their own sections where they control small fargment of the boards. These people are shown under name of board as its operators and are esily contactable by anyone who feels like it.

Also their workload is a lot smaller when they know they need to worry of only very small amount of the whole boards workload. As such they have time to do what ever is decided to be best action and notify persons in question.

This whole "theres so much stuff on bush forms" is complete BS. Theres at peak times maybe at tops hundred posts a day and on normal day around 20-30 new posts and sometimes even less posts a day. If every 100th post is against rules that means theres 1! thing to edit/delete/move a day and 7 in a week. And then you really tell me that is so much work to do that people dont have time and it would be so much work to notify the person in question of that... rofl.

If my post suddenly dissapears I really cba to go around boards trying to find someone who is moderator and then pm them asking who did and what and why. If I would be new here I wouldnt cba of whole forums after such experience. So I dont wonder for a bit we get these kind of threads and posts in em. No-one has forced these mods to take their modding job, they did ask to get it. If you cant handle the responsibility by the way people expects you to then resign. No one has forced to be mod, no one is paying for the job so quit the job. If you think your up for the job then I expect to be handled by every mod as person and as valuable member of this community and to be notified every time someone touches something I have posted. Same goes to every person signed to thee boards and every mod there is. No matter how much some people annoy others. If you cant handle the stuff then dont do it.

[Dark_Angel]

I haven't read the whole second page of this thread, but I'd like to point out some "Strange Moderating" that I have experienced, and prove several of your points wrong.

I got a 3 point infraction for a joke mail to DA. Martin and Polo who are both mods said they wouldn't have given it a 3 point infraction as it was clearly written in good humour.

I got a 6 point infraction for "Serious Disregard for forum users" <-- firstly wtf is that?! Secondly all I did was flame Davis a bit because his post was badly structured and was off topic and wholly incorrect. Tbh it could have even been considered spam, so I like to think I would doing the moderators job for them.

3 points for "Stalking" - mentioning the DA award in several posts, but only where it fitted the content of the post.

That's not even all of them.

The 3 point infraction wasnt for the mail itself. It was for abuse of the report function, if I remember correctly - I initially did not issue you with the points for messing with the report function, however after you very childishly chose to mail me back with a "mock warning" I then chose to issue you with the points as I decided a warning clearly had no effect on you.

Your problem is that you always have something to say back. You wouldn't have half the infractions you have if you very simply acknowledged mod infractions rather than feebly attempting to justify a baseless and pointless argument. Illustrated here in that 2 months on you're still talking about the same infraction >.>

[Alcibiades]

snip

The only strange moderating i find in regards to you is that you somehow aren't permbanned from forums.

Your conduct is disgraceful about 90% of the time and you incessantly flame a variety of people; the mods; Azzer etc for no other purpose than the sheer joy of flaming.

While personally i found some of it amusing it has gotten exceptionally tiresome over the last few weeks and i absolutely marvel that you aren't permanently banned from these forums. That's the only 'strange moderating' i've seen as regards you. You're way out of line; and you taking the 'moral high ground' here is just laughable.

Feel free to 'quit while you're Ahead'. ;) Pun intended.

[Changer]

snip

The only strange moderating i find in regards to you is that you somehow aren't permbanned from forums.

Your conduct is disgraceful about 90% of the time and you incessantly flame a variety of people; the mods; Azzer etc for no other purpose than the sheer joy of flaming.

While personally i find some of it amusing it has gotten exceptionally tiresome over the last few weeks and i absolutely marvel that you aren't permanently banned from these forums. That's the only 'strange moderating' i've seen as regards you. You're way out of line; and you taking the 'moral high ground' here is just laughable.

Feel free to 'quit while you're Ahead'. ;) Pun intended.

I completely agree. I find the fact that you also admit to flaming people and yet still wonder why your posts get deleted and/or you get infractions against you just totally unbelievable.

[Garrett]

Hey i try to bring automation to the peoples at work. So now I bring an idea here...

Azzer, since you said all mod actions are logged... anyway to code a trigger event to automate a general (friendly ofc) notification or 3 for different scenarios?

That way mods don't have to be shackled to explaining *every* deleted post, plus would further give newbies (and some long time adhd peoples) reinforcement on what should be done with questions et al.

[BuBbLeS]

tbh most mods are nazis and need to chill

[f0xx]

Seriously, if someone can link me to a forum of considerable size where the mods notify the poster of every single post they move/delete, they get twelve cookies and the thirteenth for free.

Stop crying that you don't get "service" or that people are "touching your property without your consent" (sounds dirty, doesn't it). Mods have a certain authority and shouldn't be forced to explain their every action as long as they act along the rules of the boards. They should only do that when people commit major infractions (like the TBA flame wars which were filled with loads of unneeded personal attacks and the likes). If you think mods should mail you with every little thing they do to your posts, you obviously don't have much experience with forums of considerable size, let alone mod-ing them, or you don't have a clue how much time that would take away from the actual mod-ing. Mod-ing is still 90% about making sure the forums are clean (bar the odd joke, which is perfectly fine imo), they're not just here to make you feel all warm and fuzzy inside.

As far as asking a member if he feels his post is not in tune with the rules, that's just ridiculous. Look at them sort of as the police. The cops don't ask you if stealing is wrong, they tell you it's wrong and act accordingly. Likewise, mods decide if you broke the rules, since that is exactly their job. Problems => PM, which brings me to my next point.

Accusing mods publicly achieves nothing but two things: A) you make them afraid of mod-ing these boards like they should, because it may cause a public backlash for them, and B) everyone jumps the bandwagon, making it only harder for the mods to do their job. Having these discussions for everyone to see is quite counterproductive as to what you hope to achieve.

My 2 cents, had some more but I forgot while typing this up :P
If you would know of other boards then you wouldnt post stuff like this. On a lot lot more active and bigger boards moderators are divided to their own sections where they control small fargment of the boards. These people are shown under name of board as its operators and are esily contactable by anyone who feels like it.

Also their workload is a lot smaller when they know they need to worry of only very small amount of the whole boards workload. As such they have time to do what ever is decided to be best action and notify persons in question.

This whole "theres so much stuff on bush forms" is complete BS. Theres at peak times maybe at tops hundred posts a day and on normal day around 20-30 new posts and sometimes even less posts a day. If every 100th post is against rules that means theres 1! thing to edit/delete/move a day and 7 in a week. And then you really tell me that is so much work to do that people dont have time and it would be so much work to notify the person in question of that... rofl.

If my post suddenly dissapears I really cba to go around boards trying to find someone who is moderator and then pm them asking who did and what and why. If I would be new here I wouldnt cba of whole forums after such experience. So I dont wonder for a bit we get these kind of threads and posts in em. No-one has forced these mods to take their modding job, they did ask to get it. If you cant handle the responsibility by the way people expects you to then resign. No one has forced to be mod, no one is paying for the job so quit the job. If you think your up for the job then I expect to be handled by every mod as person and as valuable member of this community and to be notified every time someone touches something I have posted. Same goes to every person signed to thee boards and every mod there is. No matter how much some people annoy others. If you cant handle the stuff then dont do it.

BW is absolutely correct here.

[Enrico]

Seriously, if someone can link me to a forum of considerable size where the mods notify the poster of every single post they move/delete, they get twelve cookies and the thirteenth for free.

http://vgd.no/ (formerly: vg.transact.no) which has close to 24 million post...

Automation is your friend!

Each and every time anything is moderated the poster gets a message specifying what infraction they have done, and how it has been solved. Any replies to that message goes back to the moderator that handled the original case, with a cc to the master moderators.


And Cheese: You cannot bump a thread that is at the top. You fail at logic my friend.

[lavadog]

The original suggestion did say the mods themselves have to send messages to every poster of a post they mod-ed. That is exactly where the whole time/workload argument comes from, you see? If it would be an automated process, I'd be less strongly against it.

That's why I agree with garret's automation suggestion.

EDIT: I'll give you half a cookie tho ;P

[harriergirl]

Seriously, if someone can link me to a forum of considerable size where the mods notify the poster of every single post they move/delete, they get twelve cookies and the thirteenth for free.

http://vgd.no/ (formerly: vg.transact.no) which has close to 24 million post...

Automation is your friend!

Each and every time anything is moderated the poster gets a message specifying what infraction they have done, and how it has been solved. Any replies to that message goes back to the moderator that handled the original case, with a cc to the master moderators.




THIS ALREADY EXISTS to some degree. When the warnings or infractions are given the email created is instant and a copy is sent to staff forums...

However, when things that are moderated or "deleted" (as azzer said it's really just removed from view) and are offered no explaination people seriously question whether or not they've made the post, if some sort of bug has happened. I apologise for the word "every" because yes there are some under the radar type mods that really don't matter, however in the case of things being moved/removed completely , the playerbase is in need of more explanation.

[lavadog]

ok, then I'm not as strongly against it, but, again, only if it's an automated process that leaves no room for interpretation and/or needless discussion.

By needless discussion I do not mean that you have to arbitrarily agree with everything a mod does. However the tendency to look for trouble (for example, not agreeing for the sake of not agreeing, yoooouu rebels :P) will be less great for some people if they get an automated message instead of a mod messaging them.

[Rosa]

Well this is strange moderating indeed! I can't believe this thread hasn't already been closed! Clearly the mods aren't doing their job properly, Rosa for mod kthx.

But yeah seriously Enrcio... just because you perceive your suggestion to be serious other may not view it the same way. Just because it's somewhat "relevant" to bushtarion it could also be spam.

I mean I want to make a new route called McDonald's. I'll suggest renaming acres to # of stores, I'll rename geo thieves to hamburglars, my first unit will be a briber called burger flipper, my second unit will be a NLD called Mayor McCheese... etc etc and my last unit will exactly like cybernetic t rex except it's called Ronald McDonald.

It's relevant to bushtarion and I view that suggestion as a serious suggestion... but I wonder how fast that'll be moved to spam.

[atsanjose]

depends if a mod is on... :P

and this thread is actually quite fun to read so why closing it.

[Enrico]

Rosa, Its not that long ago there was a lengthy thread on the suggestion board regarding a 3. path for the fantasy route. Just because a suggestion is silly, doesn't make it spam, imho.

[Twigley]

I would like to contribute to this gripe:

http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c222/twigleyO_o/Moderation.jpg

That all we talking about?
Something we already know that only Azzer can sort out?

How did this all spark off again o_O

[lavadog]

A third path for the fantasy route is actually way more serious than a suggestion to get Ronald McDonald as a P-Unit, Enrico.

[Enrico]

A third path for the fantasy route is actually way more serious than a suggestion to get Ronald McDonald as a P-Unit, Enrico.

You know one of the suggestions was scifi with AT-ATs as P-units?

The name of a unit is tbh not very important!

[Cheese]

Enrico don't be such an idiot.
Read the rule
Bumping is frowned upon full stop
It doesn't matter whether the post is already at the top
The hole idea of bumping is it moves a post from below the top to the top.

Do not tell me you have a better understanding of my primary language when it's not your primary one. And don't make yourself look so god damn stupid.


p.s. get some more RPG's I enjoyed killing you the other night.

[Enrico]

Enrico don't be such an idiot.
Read the rule
Bumping is frowned upon full stop
It doesn't matter whether the post is already at the top
The hole idea of bumping is it moves a post from below the top to the top.

Do not tell me you have a better understanding of my primary language when it's not your primary one. And don't make yourself look so god damn stupid.


p.s. get some more RPG's I enjoyed killing you the other night.

Sooo

If "The hole(sic) idea of bumping is it moves a post from below the top to the top."
how can "It doesn't matter whether the post is already at the top"?

You sir, fail at logic. Any normal human being understands that when the definition of bumping is to take something that is at spot >1 to spot =1, it cannot apply for something that is already at spot =1...

Oh and name calling is not becoming of you, play nice when you talk with grown ups. :)

[Cheese]

Enrico don't be such an idiot.
Read the rule
Bumping is frowned upon full stop
It doesn't matter whether the post is already at the top
The hole idea of bumping is it moves a post from below the top to the top.

Do not tell me you have a better understanding of my primary language when it's not your primary one. And don't make yourself look so god damn stupid.


p.s. get some more RPG's I enjoyed killing you the other night.

Sooo

If "The hole(sic) idea of bumping is it moves a post from below the top to the top."
how can "It doesn't matter whether the post is already at the top"?

You sir, fail at logic. Any normal human being understands that when the definition of bumping is to take something that is at spot >1 to spot =1, it cannot apply for something that is already at spot =1...

Oh and name calling is not becoming of you, play nice when you talk with grown ups. :)
I am sorry I was quite stoned when I typed that and missed out a little bit,
Ask yourself why would somebody bump?
Simple answer to bring a post to peoples attention
Now ask yourself how you can bring a post to somebodies attention?
Again a simple answer, you post a double post

Now this works in 2 different situations,
-Your post is below the top, and moves to the top with your double post.
-Your post is already at the top, now if you double post the thread changes for people who have already read the thread to unread.

Both classic cases of bumping.

Name calling? telling you not to make yourself look stupid is constructive criticism, people use it to help you. Oh and you only need to be about 15 to know that.

[Enrico]

Cheese stop spamming up the thread with nonsensical tangents about bumping of the top post and whatnot. You are sidetracking the important issues the rest of us is discussing.

As for whether I'm suited as a moderator of this board I expect the verdict is not up to you anyway, so stop worrying about it, m'kay? :D

[Melnibone]

In a thread that is griping about moderators, including a request from yourself to become a moderator the opinion of players about anyone applying is very relevant and very on-topic so just like your alliance name Enrico....... Epic Fail

[tobapopalos]

I would like to contribute to this gripe:

http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c222/twigleyO_o/Moderation.jpg

That all we talking about?
Something we already know that only Azzer can sort out?

How did this all spark off again o_O

I agree. The whole thing is absurd.

PS. The route with AT-ATs (star wars route) was my suggestion years ago. Apparently it isn't feasible because Azzer would have to pay for the rights to use the names or something :(

[Enrico]

In a thread that is griping about moderators, including a request from yourself to become a moderator the opinion of players about anyone applying is very relevant and very on-topic so just like your alliance name Enrico....... Epic Fail

LOL; I did not gripe based on the topic of the original thread, but rather on the way it was handled. (In an unfriendly and less than helpful manner.)

I do not see the relevancy, as far as the majority who has posted here to a greater or smaller degree agree with me, and as far as I know they have not applied as moderators for whenever Azzer replaces the inactives.

And as Azzer himself said in the PM convo we are having regarding a possible application. "What the user base means have little or no impact on the final decision". But meh... whatever!

[Cheese]

Cheese stop spamming up the thread with nonsensical tangents about bumping of the top post and whatnot. You are sidetracking the important issues the rest of us is discussing.

As for whether I'm suited as a moderator of this board I expect the verdict is not up to you anyway, so stop worrying about it, m'kay? :D

I am not spamming the thread, you brought the subject to the eye of the public community so expect opinions on your ridiculous suggestion to make yourself moderator.

Note a good moderator would know this. (notice I haven't had any posts changed by the good moderators... that aint you)

I know the verdict isn't upto me, but you posted requesting to be moderator public so you can't expect me not to reply if you just wanted a responce from Azzer then you have to use a little thing called Pm.

[Garrett]

well just because this is the gripes forum and it's not as regulated doesn't mean either of you are right or wrong.

both of your posts are angled with the language intended to shut the other down and have the final say.

so you are both right, both wrong, and definitely very spammy even if on topic :D

(i didn't know this thread was still going)

[Enrico]

Cheese stop spamming up the thread with nonsensical tangents about bumping of the top post and whatnot. You are sidetracking the important issues the rest of us is discussing.

As for whether I'm suited as a moderator of this board I expect the verdict is not up to you anyway, so stop worrying about it, m'kay? :D

I am not spamming the thread, you brought the subject to the eye of the public community so expect opinions on your ridiculous suggestion to make yourself moderator.

Note a good moderator would know this. (notice I haven't had any posts changed by the good moderators... that aint you)

I know the verdict isn't upto me, but you posted requesting to be moderator public so you can't expect me not to reply if you just wanted a responce from Azzer then you have to use a little thing called Pm.

Well, dear fellow, unlike some I do have the ability to learn, and when I was informed all such matters should be dealt with per PM that's what I did. And tbh I never had any post changed by moderators either, just one thread moved due to a misunderstanding. In hindsight I understood that common sense is not so common on the interwebs, and what to some is a way to show friendly intentions (as opposed to critisism) to others makes it spammy.

Fair deal. Though I noticed you still have not really touched upon the sub bject of this thread: I.e. why can't moderators be a) more friendly in their response b) more helpful.

[Cheese]

I posted a legit suggestion on the suggestion board, absolutely free of any flamebait or inappropriate language, and one moderator moves it to spam?

I thought the suggestion board was for suggestions meant to improve the game?

As for me reposting, it was just that when I didn't find the thread to add further comments, I thought I, as I have done earlier, had just pressed preview instead of posting.

I will not repost the suggestion here, but I have notified Azzer of this, as I find it hillarious that a moderator moves a suggestion from suggestions to spam, and not even notifying the original poster!

If the said moderator disagree with the suggestion he could freely post a reply, rather than do what he did. Ironically it just puts my original post in perspective.


EDIT/Ammendum:
Now Garrett informed me that everything regarding the said subject of the original thread should be dealt with per PM, but that is not mentioned anywhere I could find. And the moderator in question could as easily have just replied with that information and if need be closed the thread, rather than move it....
---

First thing you talk about is your post getting moved or what ever...
Because you aint smart enough to use one thread for a discussion I have linked the threads together.
Now this is my last reply on the subject. You bore but
Summary: Enrico as moderator = No No No!

[Enrico]

Yeah, but as you *might* notice I don't repeat what the original thread was about. You know, because it was pointed out that the sucject was supposed to be handled via PM.

Now my gripe was that the moderator didn't use 5 seconds to notify me of that, and delete the thread, rather than move it to Spam of all places, and then complain about me doubleposting, in a rather terse tone, when I reposted the thread because I though I had mixed up when originally posting.

The topic of who should be moderators is not what this thread is about, and thus I think you are very close to spamming.

:)

[atsanjose]

wtf, you guys are finished already?

REAL mods fight until death!

:D

[Enrico]

Oh god, hope not. I prefer fighting till the beer is served. ;) I just find it funny that someone manages to spam up a thread by complaining about "spam".

[atsanjose]

beer is served.

oi, you just passed the only test i have :/

:D

[Polo]

Oh god, hope not. I prefer fighting till the beer is served. ;) I just find it funny that someone manages to spam up a thread by complaining about "spam".

Oh the irony...

[BlackWolf]

I have now given these mods like 15 hours time to do their stuff right, they have not.

First of all if mods touches others postings I would expect them to touch them fairly, I could now post here around 5 posts from bush discussion where I am hammered but where my original post has been removed. WTF!
If you touch the thread where people draw their answers for them you either delete everything or nothing! This is ****ing BS from you mods to leave pundering posts you decide and then remove all posts of mine and my responses!

If I make post and someone draws one sentence out of it doesnt change the message of that post, allowing you to change th truth by deleting my post and leaving that one sentence does! I even reported one post and didnt bother to report all did anything happen?

NO!

What about whole thread? 4 pages of biggering between super admin and me, nothing!! Not a single deleted post, not warning nothing!! Then I get unoffical warning from mod who has had nothing to do with whole thread started with "WE understand" WTF! If I broke rules then YOU! punish me not WE! So as I have said multiple times, there seems to be layers of players in this game, and there seems to be elitistic group of people in this game. If no moderator has balls to touch my posts then WTF is this... you run to one moderator who has nothing to do with anything and ask him to do your work?

Then when this moderator unintentionally or not posts threats to me and I throw something back at him you cry out loud and run to Azzer to beg for some help!! WTF is going on in here!!

Man I explained my points to Azzer we had nice conversation, we dont always agree, its his game and I have said numerous time if I have done something wrong punish me. Not a single punishments have been given. Azzer and I had no problems with each others and everything seems to be fine for me.

Yet we still have these offencive threads in forums which have been edited by some 2 years old who cant understand anything. FFS get some grip people! I may not be most nicest person to have around but FFS I expect some freaking equality towards who ever is against me, as long as its not Azzer. So either you go to fix that thread, you go to cry to Azzer again or return my posts, as current actions of your is not even bad it is ****ing disgrace!

[pinpower]

BW, as many players have recently been told if you wish to make a complaint about a moderator then the correct way to do so is to PM Azzer directly. NOT post in the gripes forum.

Also, the mods often discuss particular matters with each other on our designated forums. This allows us to reach a decision together.

Like i said, if you have an issue with the conduct of any moderator please take it up with Azzer directly. Posting complaints in public are rarely taken seriously.

[BlackWolf]

Not taking me seriously , repoert to Azzer ROFL!
What are you some wussy who doesnt have balls at all?
4 pages with super mod, no one dared to touch it, then some mod who had balls but didnt know smeg is begged to intevene, uses wrong words and is pushed back and goes crying to Azzer.

You really think I care of you mods opinions? I dont, You really think I care of Azzers "you can take stuff only in secret to pm with me" I dont. You dont do your job you come out with it. you dont have balls to do your job and I come out with it. I am here and now, I push this thread to public showing what kind of stuff you mods do when you are pushed to situation where you would need to do something to things.

Have you done? Have you been fair to all sides in every situation? Has all posts been deleted that mattered or only ones you decided and mattered for your cause? NO!

You stepped up for your job, if you are not rady to do your job and take everything that your job throws at you, dont try your "take it with Azzer" with me. Thats only running to hide behind Azzers back. You have power over me on these forums, I cant do smeg to you. Yet you seem to be afraid of me. Whatta frell is that?

I have same rules here as everyone else! If I dont behave then punish me! But dont go around doing what you do now, first you try to make me look bad by deleting only posts you like and then you come here telling how I should take it with Azzer. NO! I come here making sure everyone knows what kind of stuff you people do!

If I had done something wrong FFS someone had done something during those 4 pages specially that super mod who was there talking to me. Did he? No! He sent someone else! Did that guy success? NO! he threatened me and I told him I dont listen to threats, what next? I got punished? NO!
That mod ran to Azzer!!

Get some balls mods! I am just a guy like everyone else on these forums. It doesnt take Azzer to push me back in the row. But this what your doing now, you are a ****ing joke!

[Alcibiades]

http://xmb.stuffucanuse.com/xmb/viewthread.php?action=attachment&tid=4988&pid=14503

Courtesy of, and all credit to, TehPantz

[Enrico]

To be honest, I think it would not lead to better moderating in the future if not the generall playerbase is allowed to discuss the current regime of moderators and their actions publicly. I don't really see the what harm it does to discuss it in a designated thread in the gripes forum, had everyone who felt wronged started a new thread and spammed the forums, it would have been another matter.

Two points: Moderators must never forget they are the servants of the user of a given forum, not someone above the rest. _Most_ moderators seems to remember it here, but it is still worth noting. There is nothing as detrimental to a forum as when the users perceive the moderators as feeling "above" the users, as that only breeds contempt and disrespect.

Secondly: Any moderator must really be able to stand for his decision, regardless of whether it has been discussed with other moderators. Thus it is an "I have moderated you" not "We have moderated" thing. That only breeds the aforemention contempt by setting up a "we" vs. "you".

[Garrett]

ah enrico, i didn't want to post, but a couple of your points amused me with so many comments about entitlement, so little time.

however, it is amusing to see what people do with 'perceived' power. Heh you pretty much saw the whole team draw their wagons in a circle to insulate themselves almost immediately when selected. the egos in this competitive game (including and sometimes especially the mods) will always draw a polarizing line.

the playerbase median age is young, and the mod staff equally so. to their credit, forums haven't died because some of their monumental mistakes, coupled with some folks posts/threads (ank,nightninja,lollercaust) has caused alot of gossip and therefore traffic.

But I've come to realize that the kids are doing their best (yep all of them. it's just some of their bests are detriments, but i'm not here for a dr. phil moment), but kids moderating kids never really goes well.

[pinpower]

BW for starters i can barely understand your post. I know English isnt your first language so im not having a go. Just saying i think some of your points have been lost in translation on me, if my responses are incorrect because of this i apologise :).

BUT Dont mistake me trying to be helpful and direct you to the right method of complaint (if that is indeed what you are trying to do) for "fear" of you. lol. At the moment it seems to me you are trying to attention seek rather than make any real points. Im not even directly involved with the particular issue your talking about, but i obviously know the facts and i think you have seriously misunderstood the situation.

All i am saying to you is that Azzer has requested that complaints about staff members go directly to him, not on the public forums. Please try and understand this rather than causing even more threads to be removed or w/e. (Not a threat in any way, im just saying its never good to have so many threads being locked)

One final time: The gripes forum is not the place to voice complaints about mods/mod decisions. The correct way is to PM the mod in question or if you feel neccesary Azzer himself. Posting such things in public does no good and actually reflects badly on the community i think to any new players who might be joining the forums

[Garrett]

oooooh too bad I don't have licensing rights to 'stepford wives'


'stepford wives, a war game' how interesting. speaking of war, anyone watch the stephen colbert uso shows? i only caught the first one but I was highly amused. especially the shaving of his head.

he was in front of the troops and then said 'tell me, i'm confused about something' then pulls out a big 'Risk' box and started talking about the 'rules of war' it was good times.

[BlackWolf]

Pinpower have fun trying to learn english and what I said. I have read it 4 times now and I cant make out such mistakes that would render it unreadable. Also seems to me that for example Enrico understood it.

Everyone up to this date who has posted, said or something along those line of others language have always been doing so to save their own asses of being kicked.

I got new members from argentina on round 13 or somthing... called Fer and Maradona... I could barely.. I mean just barely understand a one word they said, yet I talked with them, we worked together and won that round. and look where they are today. And I do mean their English was so bad, so so bad that they couldnt get one word spelled right. Yet I always figured out what they wanted to say, I helped them with my bad english best I could, I dont take credit of any of it, but look at Fer today he speaks so fluent english that he makes me a shamed of my own.

So please dont come to me with your "I can understand you" BS. Thats lousy excuse of getting owned. If you have something to say then say it, if you dont then piss off! My English has been same since round 5 and it has not changed to worse, maybe a bit better now... If they understood me back then everyone must understand me now. So your excuse of not understanding is just poor excuse.

So how bout you go and look at your mod stats again, still no warnings, still no punishments... WTF are you up to? This "war" is turning against you word by word, an you guys are losing it simply cause you dont have the balls to back up what you signed up for. You get others to give empty threads for you, you run to Azzer when your empty threads are handed back to you and you still have not had guts and balls to even back up your own words.

So please save yourself and stop trying to argue with me, I have been here longer than you, and I know damn well Azzers rules, I play by rules when I post this stuff, but I didnt give a **** back then and I dont give a **** now to Azzers BS about "dont post your problems with mods here". Azzer can try to sweep what he wants under carpet, but with me wars doesnt go that way. If you want to fight you must be prepared for a fight and it seems to me that you people dont have anything to throw against me in this fight. I have no problems with Azzer, we actually see things very close to each others, we dont agree of all things but we discuss about those. This is not about Azzer my thread it is about the way you mods act. I know Azzer will post me and probably ban me and we will discuss this, he has hes opinion and I have mine, we know we wont agree no matter how much we "fight", but what we both know is that sooner or later we both can find mutual agreement.

Thats something you mods cant, if you dont have balls to take first step being too afraid of some super mod or some blackwolf on some internet forums.. WTF did you sign for? I gave you months. I was trying to be patient and act nice, and let you get adjusted. Now its been more than plenty of time and still same **** is there! You still acnt same way and you have not learned a **** from people who have posted to these forums!

Man I miss HG as a mod who even as a female had balls to PM me and tell me with straight word that I am acting like ****ing idiot. Then I responded to her and we changed few letters and found middle way of it all. She did what she signed for you mods are not! Get hang of your self or ****ing resign I dont care but do something!

[Garrett]

fer and maradona rock :D

[pinpower]

Blackwolf, again dont be so hostile.

I was merely trying to be honest saying it was most likely MY fault if any of your points went over my head and to apologise in advance if that was the case. Im genuinely baffled as to how you can argue with even that...

Edit: BW, nobody wants to "fight" with you. Like i said before your issues arent even with me. I was just trying to direct you to the appropriate and more effective way of voicing your concerns when i saw this thread. Rant at me all you like but i was trying to help you.

[f0xx]

Man I miss HG as a mod who even as a female had balls to PM me and tell me with straight word that I am acting like ****ing idiot.

I don't need to be a mod to tell you that in teh face BW :D

[harriergirl]

Man I miss HG as a mod who even as a female had balls to PM me and tell me with straight word that I am acting like ****ing idiot. Then I responded to her and we changed few letters and found middle way of it all. She did what she signed for you mods are not! Get hang of your self or ****ing resign I dont care but do something!

:popcorn: I love you too BW, go get them my little war puppeh.

[Dark_Angel]

I have now given these mods like 15 hours time to do their stuff right, they have not.

First of all if mods touches others postings I would expect them to touch them fairly, I could now post here around 5 posts from bush discussion where I am hammered but where my original post has been removed. WTF!
If you touch the thread where people draw their answers for them you either delete everything or nothing! This is ****ing BS from you mods to leave pundering posts you decide and then remove all posts of mine and my responses!

If I make post and someone draws one sentence out of it doesnt change the message of that post, allowing you to change th truth by deleting my post and leaving that one sentence does! I even reported one post and didnt bother to report all did anything happen?

NO!

What about whole thread? 4 pages of biggering between super admin and me, nothing!! Not a single deleted post, not warning nothing!! Then I get unoffical warning from mod who has had nothing to do with whole thread started with "WE understand" WTF! If I broke rules then YOU! punish me not WE! So as I have said multiple times, there seems to be layers of players in this game, and there seems to be elitistic group of people in this game. If no moderator has balls to touch my posts then WTF is this... you run to one moderator who has nothing to do with anything and ask him to do your work?

Then when this moderator unintentionally or not posts threats to me and I throw something back at him you cry out loud and run to Azzer to beg for some help!! WTF is going on in here!!

Man I explained my points to Azzer we had nice conversation, we dont always agree, its his game and I have said numerous time if I have done something wrong punish me. Not a single punishments have been given. Azzer and I had no problems with each others and everything seems to be fine for me.

Yet we still have these offencive threads in forums which have been edited by some 2 years old who cant understand anything. FFS get some grip people! I may not be most nicest person to have around but FFS I expect some freaking equality towards who ever is against me, as long as its not Azzer. So either you go to fix that thread, you go to cry to Azzer again or return my posts, as current actions of your is not even bad it is ****ing disgrace!

BW, as I will message you shortly, not only did I remove your posts from the thread you're talking about here, I removed mine.

The reason being, as you well know, our conversation (that was basically made up of me questioning your bizarre and unhelpful remarks in reply to Twigley) went massively off-topic and was cluttering up a perfectly good thread with what was basically an argument between me and you. I questioned your hostility, you defended, in a conversation that spanned some 20 posts. A number of users complained our conversation was off-topic, I agreed and removed our posts. A couple of posts being off-topic is acceptable in the average thread. An argument that goes on for 3 pages is not. Exchanges of this nature are better suited to PM, purely because long-winded arguments arent practical in the majority of threads - especially threads that are "help" related or of a very specific nature, such as Twigleys', wherein someone might be looking for an answer but struggle to do so because of the amount of crap that has built up between two people trying to prove a point.

You did not receive a message telling you this because I thought you'd have the common sense, being a long-standing member of the community, to realise that our conversation was removed because it served no purpose in that thread other than to steer the topic massively off-course.

I generally avoid posting moderation reasoning publicly, as quite frankly my position does not require I do so. However, as you've chosen to be so vocal on this occasion I've humoured you.

I have now given these mods like 15 hours time to do their stuff rightLastly, I do have a life. Forgive me if I don't deal with issues you see as "world is ending important" in the very, very generous amount of time you've shown here.

Man I miss HG as a mod who even as a female had balls to PM me and tell me with straight word that I am acting like ****ing idiot. Then I responded to her and we changed few letters and found middle way of it all.

I certainly *don't* have time for a long winded exchange over PM, to pat you on the back, tell you its "alright" and have a quaint little giggle with you at the end, rejoicing we've spent/wasted hours reaching an agreement over a ridiculously trivial matter.

[BlackWolf]

Where have I complained of removing my posts? No where! I said and say now after way over 24h if you want to mod something the FFS do it right.

BW: http://bushtarion.com/forums/showpost.php?p=37661&postcount=44

:P
BW, your logic is illogical. He's not putting words into your mouth, he's quoting what came out of it :S
BW your inane ranting has led to you, indirectly, calling many people idiots. This hostility just isn't necessary. People are capable of making their points calmly, discreetly and without overt hostility or calling people 'idiots' if they can't do some things or talking down at them because they aren't as clever as you. i'm guilty of behaving that way to be sure, but at least i can recognize when i'm behaving like a prat.
searching for irc software gives you http://www.wyldryde.org/software/
as 2nd answer right after mirc. Took me whole 30 seconds to try these both out.

30 seconds to find an appropriate, polite and easy answer. And what, ~5 hours to argue meaningless points because of your original unreasonable anger and hostility?

Am i the only one who sees the contradiction here?

There still those posts in there they have nothing to do with topic they are targetted against me yet all my posts have been removed and my replies have been removed. Do your ****ing job! You edit, you edit it all or then you return all posts there.

You went on with me for ****ing 4 pages... Your a super mod arnt you the one who should be pushing threads back to their places? Then you run to Weeble who had nothing to do with whole thread and weeble mails me his threats obviously pushed by others as he stated how your elitistic "we" group had decided to warn me not to post to that thread again.

Then when I tell weeble to smeg off with his threats cause no one decides for me where I post and dont he rans crying to Azzer. Only after that point first edit to whole thread was made. Hours after that I reported these posts which are STILL after over 24h there, which are clearly offtopic and directly aimed against me. Do your job! You touch my posts and remove my posts then I expect you to do same to others too. If you dont then you get these kind of threads/posts.

Stop trying to make excuses of your life and **** like that. There are multiple mods on these forums and not even one has done their work right! I have not asked for any reasons why posts were removed, I have not complained of those getting removed, I know damn well why those were removed. Have I asked why those were removed? Show me!! Cause I cant see! I want you mods to do your job and that means if you edit threads you edit them all, not only the ones you like!

[pinpower]

BW, no mods are "running" off to each other like you think. We have a mod section in which all warnings/reports/infractions etc are discussed therefore each mod sees whats going on, as does Azzer.

And do you not think it makes more sense for a mod who isnt actively participating in the discussion to make the decision as he/she is impartial?

[BlackWolf]

Obviously you do run to others. In case you would do your work DA and those few other mods who were posting in that thread should have done their work a lot sooner.

It took 4+ pages and few hours of time before I was contacted by first mod. Mod that was not even around when it all started and who then asI said mistakenly or not threatened me in his post where he clearly states that "we" are warning you. Not he or she, not I warn you. He aproached me as a tip of iceberg cause you others didnt have balls and ran to him hours after it all started.

If I did something wrong then damn sure one of you mods who were around all the time should have come to me. Did you? NO! Was any posts removed before he came to me? No! Posts were removed way after that. So obviously when he came on forums and there was no your mystical edited posts on your elitistic section of forums someone had conversation on somewhere behind that thread in your elitistic section of forums as that decision to send that post was not Weebles idea it was made by elitistic "we" group.

It is funny how you obviously realize now how you have made big mistake and how you here all the time try to defend your actions. You are trying to justify 4+ pages of matherial during which time none of you mods did your job.

[pinpower]

BW, after this im not going to post again but all i can say is everything you have said there is FALSE.

I have seen PMs and no "threats" were made in ANY way at all. You have blown this entire thing out of proportion for no other reason than attention seeking i think.
As for any time delay, often things will be discussed before action is taken...especially with borderline issues such as this. A friendly PM was sent to you, not an official warning, and you've gone off on one now.

Like i said i wont post again on the subject. But you have seriously misunderstood the entire "situation".

Thanks

[Dark_Angel]

Then you run to Weeble who had nothing to do with whole thread and weeble mails me his threats obviously pushed by others as he stated how your elitistic "we" group had decided to warn me not to post to that thread again.

Weeble mailed you because he saw the same reports I did, from users who deemed your post hostile and unnecessary.

Naturally I backed Weeble up on this.

I've not the will or the patience to reply to the rest of what you've written. You're exaggerating on a massive scale, I suggest you calm down and reassess the seriousness of the situation. Specifically the lack of seriousness.

[harriergirl]

Actually I think BW's opinion on what goes on behind the scenes is almost exactly correct from what I remember. In no way should DA have allowed the previous posts to go on for 4 pages, then another mod comes and removes it all? Plus again, no note, no comment no nothing to BW in pm to explain what's happened..

DA you disgust me, Its your frakking job to moderate the forums. But you are so arrogant you don't have the time or inclination to spend explaining yourself. BW is arguing for a reason, and if you would have taken the time to figure that out and address him, you could've stopped this thread a page ago. YOU were just as guilty of taking the thread in question off topic... the least you could have done was sent a mail explaining. But I forget that you are just too good for that. This is a case where your poor moderation has caused more troubles for the public, Had you just sent a note, you could be having this discussion with BW in private and the rest of us wouldn't know about it.

[lavadog]

It's poor play on BW's side too, he should've mailed his complaints directly to DA. I think this whole public trial thing some users put about mods is just as disgusting and as much of a sign of poor user conduct as the poor modding you think they do, but hey.

[harriergirl]

It's poor play on BW's side too, he should've mailed his complaints directly to DA. I think this whole public trial thing some users put about mods is just as disgusting and as much of a sign of poor user conduct as the poor modding you think they do, but hey.

It's been my experience, that sometimes the only way to bring something to azzer's attention is through public outcry. Do you know for certain BW didn't try a pm? or has tried PM's in the past and been ignored or brushed off in the manner that he is now? I agree that public outcry is NOT the best way to go which is why the moderators should be above what the player base does. However communication goes two ways and our current moderation staff is stubbornly refusing any feedback at thier end.

Again there has not been any consistancy regarding how posts are handled, what material is being removed and the playerbase is left in the dark. If they would learn from these mistakes, you wouldn't constantly see them being repeated in the public eye.

[lavadog]

But how is this public outcry doing any good? From where I'm sitting it only seems to spawn more hate and has a big bandwagon effect.

Btw, BW seems pretty needy. Wow, he gave the mods a full day to handle his posts the way he thinks they should be handled? If he had waited a week, I would've agreed with him, but come on, if you want things to be handled correctly, you also have to allow the mods to get together and to find a solution. And I'm pretty sure from the responses in this thread that he hasn't pm-ed them. If he did pm then AND made this thread, then he's just looking for attention, simple as. This whole thing has blown way out of proportion, partially by this public outcry you speak of, making it even harder for the mods to do their job imo. If you want Azzer to take you seriously, giving the mods crap is not the way to go imo.

To get back to the start of this, BW your general tone has been hostile for a long time (Ive been lurking around here on other accounts before), and the response to twigley was a perfect example of it. You didn't call him stupid directly, but you always imply these sort of things. Those implications are crystal clear to everyone else, and only you seem to think different. I'm not trying to flame you here (srsly, there's enough crap floating around here as is :P); but if 90% of the people you reply to feel offended, then there is a problem you can't deny and you might want to work on that.


Now I hope this thread isn't closed before I hit submit :')

[BlackWolf]

My problem has not been at any point how my posts were edited, my point has all the time been how not all posts were edited. If you touch some individuals posts then FFS you edit it all.

Lavadog you kill one person in bushtarion in 60 minutes, why should I wait a week for mods to do their job? At point they delete first post of any thread they should delete all posts which are "against rules". I dont need to watch and I shouldnt need to watch 7 days of posts mods want to keep only cause they wanted to remove my posts only, or the posts they seemed to be non fit for their cause.

If they edit they should edit with same rules not depending of the side they have taken. Did they? Was there still clearly non topic offending posts left?

I PM:ed them? No. They PM:ed me. I told them to smeg off and not try to threaten me... how they PM:ed me? They told me: they have decided (not I as individual mod), I have 2 options not to post to that thread or to take long breath before I post, this is heads up from them of further punishments. Whole threads tone as I have said intentionally or not was clearly offending made by elitistic "we" which have power over me as my ONLY power is publicity where they can ban etc. me. Made by person who clearly had no connection to whole thread and who didnt even for a minute think someone else might have done something or not done their job but me.

As I said to Azzer no matter to what kind of shape you put your posts if your posts "tone" is shaped in certain way then it will show up to that people reading it. I have not offended anyone yet I am beeing called hostile... where have I been hostile.. why would hostility ounly count me and my posts when only that same "tone" of mine seems so... yet same doesnt count mods who threat me with threatening tone not to post anymore or be punished? I also told Azzer if any mod had posted me unoffical warning to calm down I wouldnt have taken it threatening, but posting me not to post to some thread and them mentioning how I will get punished... hell yes its threatening and I dont take that stuff lightly. I am still here and still not even 1 warning... seems I have not done anything wrong, so why you are afraid of me and edit/delete my posts? Why I get threatened? If I have not broken any rules why am I threated like this?

I didnt PM them I reported ONE post in that thread which I thought was most offencive.

Last time I reported more than 1 post inside same thread I got warned to not report more than 1 post at time. I was told reporting more than 1 post is offencive and isnt taken well by mods and next time I would get punished. I am not idiot... but is this stuff consistant? Seems not to be. Rules seems to differ when mods feels so. Why I made this public? Cause I want attention, or cause I am and always had been one who wants everything to been put forvard?

As I have said before this is real world, not some happy fluffy pink clouds world. Not everyone agrees with everything that happens, and more these things are brought to public decision better it is for well being of whole community, making damn sure that all ballless and idiot mods are sooner or later removed of their jobs and replaced with people who actually want and are capable to do their job.

Who these idiots are is your decisions, I am not naming anyone, but well I have my own opinoons just am not "allowed" to do it so here.

[Weeble]

The facts are these:

I sent you a message as a friendly reminder (ie no official status what-so-ever) that your posts were getting hostile; I did not want to see you receive an infraction for this matter.
You replied claiming that I was "threatening you" despite the fact there was not a single threat within my friendly message to you; merely a few suggestions as to how to proceed (take a deep breath to calm down, or refrain from posting if you couldn't think of anything nice to say).
Azzer read the messages exchanged between us (which were posted in the Moderators section) and took matters into his own hands, having a conversation with you in PM.

At no point did I "go running to Azzer".


With regards to the related posts not being removed in a 'timely' fashion: when we hide posts, they are removed from public view, but not from ours; when we look at a thread we see *every* post, including those that have been moderated. Thus, it can sometimes be less than easy to distinguish which posts are still viewable by the public if we're skimming over the topic, and as a result some posts which should be moderated might be missed.
I have since gone through the thread in question and examined each post in turn, removing any that did not relate directly to the subject at hand. If you feel there are still some there, please report them and we will deal with them as soon as. If you don't feel comfortable reporting every post, report one, providing references to others.


This thread has gone on way too long with the same thing continuously repeated.

Thread locked

If you have any further comments to add, feel free to PM either myself or another moderator. If you feel your comment is above the moderator's heads, PM Azzer (http://www.bushtarion.com/forums/private.php?do=newpm&u=1).
Once again I shall state that the forums are not the place to raise issues regarding staff; a PM to Azzer is.