Vampire Discussion!

[Saints]

Id like to make this clear to everyone right now.... The unit vampire is overpowered, they totaly obliterate the entire SO route there is nothing for an SA SO person to do against unless some how to clone a how crap load of striker and robo units.... but to show u

[range] 7,500,000 hostile Vampire attacked, killing 29,586,673 allied staff.<--- they kill
[raised] 2,691,943 corpses twitched into life, becoming Lesser Vampire.<--- and bribe
on the attack i got 10-% "Injury" back so i was "almost" completely zeroed like the old times

BUT what they "Kill" is considered converting some how :mad: so what they "Kill"<<< u get like 10% back or none i couldn't tell i wasn't there for the attack when i got raped... but when i got on i had 10-% my old amount of units and lost 3k land!


It is quite hard to play this round knowing no matter what u do a route is there to demolish u without u firing... and with that u get almost 0 units back

Just wanted to hear ppls thoughts, if anyone is like that is part of the game... no it isnt with this new injury system its supose to be designed so u cant get bash or zeroed but here is the big battle explained out....
viewtopic.php?f=6&t=340 (http://www.bushtarion.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=340)

[KitKat]

I went away for 2 hours, came back and I was completely zeroed (had injury though) from 10 mil RPGs just raping my entire army without me even being able to fire and I lost 2k acres. You're not the only one with a route you're weak against and like over half the people this round are military.

Though the injury should be fixed maybe =P Else next round i'd see many many many people going vamps.

[Cheese]

There's nothing Robots can do about harriers therefore harriers are over powered.
There's nothing PoMs can do about bikers therefore they are too over powered...
See where I'm coming from? :P

[BlackWolf]

Yes but you jerks got 60% back as insurance.
That guy got 10% back due vampires being converting (bribing) units. Theres just that "small" difference.
Which you obviously knew and could have read from his post if you would have bothered. Clearly either you didnt want to bother or you missed it to get to be jerks towards someone.
Vampires are hugely overpowered this round end of story.

[Cheese]

Yes but you jerks got 60% back as insurance.
That guy got 10% back due vampires being converting (bribing) units. Theres just that "small" difference.
Which you obviously knew and could have read from his post if you would have bothered. Clearly either you didnt want to bother or you missed it to get to be jerks towards someone.
Vampires are hugely overpowered this round end of story.
No mr jerk.
I made a point on saying something is over powered because it kicks something elses arse is rubbish because it then needs applying to every other unit that does the same.
There is nothing wrong with vampires.
There is how ever alot wrong with the injury system.

[BlackWolf]

No. Injury system is rather nice implication and its not its fault that vampires as convertin units are over powered.
Vampires may be very well balanced when comparing to other units but as converting units those should be over half weaker than are atm to compensate fact they are converting not kiling units.
Also if you think problem is in injuries you can say that injury system is smegged not make fun out of maker of this thread. Which in my opinion is right about that vampiers as they are, are over powered.

[pinpower]

yes, vamps need to be changed....it is utterly stupid that azzer hasnt changed it yet



and on a side note, can we just give BlackWolf back his "Forum Whiner" name or w/e it was...because its obvious he's just going to go around and complain/moan and be a fool until he gets it back


;p

[BlackWolf]

Im not a fool m8. I think both replies to this thread were out of their line (specially later one). Both replies were made in tone that made first poster to be seen in bad light. I think thse 2 posters acted as idiots towards maker of this thread and as such they shall be dealt with in future posts.
As i said in my last post they could have in friendly tone tell that they think problem is actually in injury system not in unit vampire as they see it. Did they?
No they started to make fun of maker of this thread. Which is really unfriendly from them and i think they deserved what they got from me. Also i dont see that bit where im "whining". Tho i would really much like to get my offical whinger status back.

[pinpower]

my post wasnt meant as a personal insult btw..lol

but all your posts recently have been whining...and just hostile for no reason...never any constructive arguments or anything...

also, i dont think cheese was that out of line or anything...not to the point where you need to "come to the rescue" lol

meh, group hug!

[Cheese]

There is nothing wrong with vampires...
The problem is the injury system classes them as converting everything when technically speaking they convert a small amount...

[willymchilybily]

first of all damn cheese how am i meant ot view forums at uni, and look respectable with multiple pairs of bouncing boobs. all over the page. on the other hand they make me happy on the inside.

back to topic. vamps kill lots and convert few. those that get converted should remain out the game. those that are simply killed should be returned.

the problem is the vamps...i may be wrong but i believe...... doesnt convert certain units like a briber. it kills them all then converts a % based on either amount or value. etc. so in this respect to know what is converted is going to be nigh impossible. i may be wrong it may just be the same as a briber. and it should be no problem to give you back the correct men.

but if im right and they work differently to bribers it will make it alot harder to know what should be returned. i'm just releaved that there havent been many vamps this round. from what ive seen anyway.
and as for imbalanced
first of all try to clone emp's as your sa's do enough health damage. and emp's do enough armour to strip the vamps.and they work very well against armour based units as well the types that might also pick on an sa that has too few assassins. due to the fact emps have the machine bonuses etc. and they are weakish. hence fairly good ratio on cloning i would imagine. work much better than trying to clone strikers imo. and attacks the same ticks as the vampire... and like the striker, emps only attacks for lethals.

as for imbalanced once again.... werewolf main armour hitter i see on that side of the route. after the vamps rubbish armour stripping ability. and one fires on the ranged tick and the onther on the middle tick. so i would imagine a few robo's once teched would give this route a fair bash, this is only an assumption havent played either route since fantasy came out. this round i would have to say i have seen alot more robo's than i have vamps around.

so other than the fact the injuries is kinda "broken" for this routes victims, it is hardly over powered. it seems like a bit of a pussy route to me personally. i wouldnt want to be able to be ambushed midd tick or face first tick repeated bashing. overpowered i think not IMO!

[Garrett]

i agree with billybob, that with the new injury system, the way vamps are handled need changed. however, ask jiggy... a SO player can effectively (and I did it without sa's at the time) fight a vamp middle tick. when I factored in my high injury return rate... I did damage to him with virtually no losses or in other words I did way more damage to him than he did to me. I straight up owned him middle tick with little effort.

does this require you to be online? yes. can certain troop make ups change that yes. but that's part of th luck and skill of the game.

[SentiNell]

Emps do NOT strip armor for other units. If emps fire on a unit and strip all it's armor, but de to health the unit still survives the armor stripping is negated right after they ahve fired. It's the only unit in the game that has this "emp" effect and you can see that there stats are different in the manual then any other lethal.

Unless things have changed in between rounds that I ahve played.

[pinpower]

Description: EMP Warriors are clad in a pure white uniform. They have next to no armour and have received only basic training, however, they do wield powerful EMP pulse rifles which are very capable at completely disrupting electronics, machinery, and types of armour. EMP effects do not last for much more than a few seconds though, so anything that survives an EMP blast is completely unaffected by it in any other way.


you are right...i never knew that...well, how interesting!

[Charlie_B]

Basically, if you thought vamps were balanced last round then you must think they're unbalanced, or at least have been significantly boosted, by the effect on injury.
Bribing doesn't give much (any?) injured units because it would create more units than originally existed, and tempt people to cheat. This isn't the case for converting and converting should give better injury returns than it currently does. Why not?

[Chewie]

yes, vamps need to be changed....it is utterly stupid that azzer hasnt changed it yet



and on a side note, can we just give BlackWolf back his "Forum Whiner" name or w/e it was...because its obvious he's just going to go around and complain/moan and be a fool until he gets it back


;p

Blackwolf wasnt whining for a change he was pointing out the general ignorance of others.

Harriers can be controlled by PA's Cheese. just a thought ;)

The vampire unit is amazing at killing SO's possible the best unit on the game for being a specialised killer. its overpoewered in terms of SA killing but the injury thing takes the piss in all fairness especially with the ease it destroys SO's.

[Hobo]

what chewie said

its the only unit tht can zero a player

its stealth
quick firing
converts

and now wipes players in a game that was supposed to stop one tick zeroing. if im offline and get zeroed by bikers im back in 12 ticks
if im SO and offline and get zeroed by vamps im not back at all.

it needs fixing or as i said in another post all next round will be is vamps and armour ( and poms ofc :P )

[Alvestein]

heres a good way to fix it. make it so all LETs can zero again! then its fair and no one can whine :D

[Haplo]

As vamps are undead maybe make it so that vamps cant have injury? Just a thought. Might not be enough to solve the problem tho :?

[Azzer]

Just confirming the conversion<->injury stuff is a bug, is acknowledged, and I will work on fixing post haste :)

[Saints]

well they havent been fixed my friend just got hurt by vamps also

[Saints]

id also like to thank everyone for the flaming i got for a big bug... and thx bw for the back up ;)

[BeakY]

yes, vamps need to be changed....it is utterly stupid that azzer hasnt changed it yet



and on a side note, can we just give BlackWolf back his "Forum Whiner" name or w/e it was...because its obvious he's just going to go around and complain/moan and be a fool until he gets it back


;p

Blackwolf wasnt whining for a change he was pointing out the general ignorance of others.

Harriers can be controlled by PA's Cheese. just a thought ;)

The vampire unit is amazing at killing SO's possible the best unit on the game for being a specialised killer. its overpoewered in terms of SA killing but the injury thing takes the piss in all fairness especially with the ease it destroys SO's.

get a robo to kick their ass then
i've had my asss handed to me all round by robos, and apaches too
the vamp route is so easily killed by them
the vamp is my only way to get some revenge

[Enrico]

Fixing vamps are important, as all other units that "permakill" are per definition slow (except scrap bots which are unwieldy nevertheless), rather weak, and really expensive.

Vamps are fast and strong... so they can in effect zero a number of routes.

But given that Vamp convertion is based on a percentage of total kills they make, having the same rate removed from all staff before calculating injured staff shouldn't be taht difficult?
I.e. if 12,5% of the kills are converted, thus the normal injury rate is multiplied by 0,875.

Now I think that in due time, maybe all routes should have one branch with at least one bribing/converting unit.

Already:
Protest (Hypnos)
SO (Cloners, Pol.Bribers, Puppetmasters)
Robo (Scrap bots)
Military (Recruitment Officers)
Fantasy (Zombies, Vamps)

Needs:
Thug
I would propose to drop Arsonists and substitute with something like this:
Instigator Let (bribes)- ***/* **/** [range/medium] INN/NLT/All 42,000 ETA 4 Init 825
You wanna start a riot? These orators can turn a crowd of peaceful spectators into a vicious mob in a heartbeat with choice words appealing to the baser instincts. Not to overpowered for what they do I think?

[BeakY]

Vamps are fast and strong... so they can in effect zero a number of routes.


name a route that doesnt have a super unit that kills other branches so easy...
plus vamp cant kill a whole route on its own
vamps are not overpowered, hit a vamp with strikers/any LET robot and u will anhilate it with no loss
u take away its ability to sneak up or to kill a few SO and ur killing the whole route, the conversion sucks and LVamps do jack diddly squat. the rest of the route dies so easyily that vamps are all u really have (yeah wolves and gargs do some but not enough to call the route "balanced")

[Loz]

/me Loves his vamps :roll:

[Enrico]

Vamps are fast and strong... so they can in effect zero a number of routes.


name a route that doesnt have a super unit that kills other branches so easy...
plus vamp cant kill a whole route on its own
vamps are not overpowered, hit a vamp with strikers/any LET robot and u will anhilate it with no loss
u take away its ability to sneak up or to kill a few SO and ur killing the whole route, the conversion sucks and LVamps do jack diddly squat. the rest of the route dies so easyily that vamps are all u really have (yeah wolves and gargs do some but not enough to call the route "balanced")

Vampires ZERO other routes, all other routes KILL, thus gives you diminishing returns in the form of injured troops.

A Vamps fire first first tick vs a number of other routes, and can thus shift the total outcome of the battle.

And yes, Robos and RPG/Striker kan kill a Vamp, but thats no consillation for a SA player who looses 1 trill in staff and get 0% in injuries...

Fix Vamps so only what the raise is removed from injuries, and the problem is solved.

[Alcibiades]

I believe Enrico, that Azzer coded a change midway through the round that altered the Vamps zeroing capabilities. I could just be mistaken tho.

[BeakY]

well some1 should have told me at the start of the round to hit SO, cos i never went near them as they pwned me b4 i got vamps
as did most ppl, the only way i survived was to stay away from robots and to mass vamps to get bounties on ppl

if u want to avoid being raped by vamps, dont go SO, go PA/CW and u'll cream them

[Saints]

im 99.99% positive they are fixed or id been complaining all round :\ thats both a good and a bad thing

[Souls]

* "Convert" units now grant injury (dependant on how much they converted and how much they killed). The injury rate will be based on the difference of the total units the "convert" unit hits, minus the total value of units the "convert" successfully converts to their own side... effectively the actual "dead", non-converted units. This should be a fair system of injury for all convert attacks.

Quoth the Portal, evermore. ;)