Leader

[Nitrous]

One question: What makes a good leader?

Many people have different views on this so just would like to know :D

[DarkSider]

If your members go in hell and back with a smile on their face because you ask to means you're a good leader.

But qualities .. i'd say active, trustworthy, ability to take fast decisions and show confidence .. pretty much leader qualities in rl while respecting your team since unlike rl they don't have to fear beeing firead :D

[Yeadon]

Hmm

They will not just make descisions on what they think is right. Instead they will listen to what the alliance has to say and give everybody a say in what goes on.

Like DS said they would need to be active as sometimes when your leader is idle/afk for a long amount of time things can go wrong and if the leader is not around to calm things down or defuse the situation people can end up leaving/the alliance folding.

Dont set too many rules and do not be too heavy with what you expect of your guys to achieve. Sometimes better to let them play to the style they are good at & at there own growth pace.

Thats how i would see it but im not the best for leadership but do like to have my say etc...

Maybe one of the leaders could come forward and give us their views on how to run an alliance & how they run their own...

[Illumination]

I have played under many leaders, but there are two that stand out as quality. They were both extremely different, but they had one thing in common, they motivated the alliance and made people want to play. Nothing kills an alliance like inactivity- so you have to make it fun to be online. One leader was a die hard, more of a dictator. She was cut-throat and go for the win. We were so competitive that it was just great:) The other leader was quite the opposite. Very laid back and do-what-you-can type style, but defend at all costs. People wanted to be online in that alliance because he was so nice and personable..more of a friendly than comptetive alliance.

Both alliances finished top 5, the competitive leader took us to a win, the other just to lots of fun at rank 5:) Both were respectful finishes and both successful rounds in my opinion.

I agree that the leader must have an insane level of activity, but I also think that they have to have a way to motivate their team..it has to be fun, its a game and no one gets paid to be here...so they have to want to be:)

[DarkSider]

Yeah, there's no absolute requirement to listen to other plans, an dictator can be a good leader *points at Welshie*. But if the mirc room gets all alive and excited when the leader joins, you know you have a good leader :)

[cityguy]

For me, a good leader must have
1)Certain Reputation - I wont bother to spent 3 month to play under a leader which i never hear of

2)Activity/Contactable - Why would I bother to be active/contactable, if my leader aren`t active/contactable himself

3)Knowledge/Experience - How does the leader lead the ally to victory if they dunno the game inside out, must be able to organise ally attack/mass defend plan

4)Wise decision/Politician - Often the ally i in could decide to give up chance of winning just to stop another ally from winning, a worthy leader shouldn`t let his personal grudge affect his decision and should choose the best path for his ally to take

5)Bonding with member - Have a good communication between leader and member, we member are not just pawn of the leader and got our own target to achieve in rounds

6)Leadership/Boosting morale - Leader need to remain calm when things aren`t going right to keep morale high, leader who just went accusing member being scorequeen not defending and not active to push the blame around aren`t even worthy for me to play along with

Conclusion, best leader so far i played with should be Blackwolf :D

[Cyrus]

you sure blackwolf? he doesnt do this:

Bonding with member - Have a good communication between leader and member, we member are not just pawn of the leader and got our own target to achieve in rounds

Leadership/Boosting morale - Leader need to remain calm when things aren`t going right to keep morale high, leader who just went accusing member being scorequeen not defending and not active to push the blame around aren`t even worthy for me to play along with

[Subdivisions]

A good leader would hire Illumination, since she's good at keeping morale and handling all of the dirty work....or at least that's how it worked as I remember :)

[Garrett]

you sure blackwolf? he doesnt do this:

Bonding with member - Have a good communication between leader and member, we member are not just pawn of the leader and got our own target to achieve in rounds

Leadership/Boosting morale - Leader need to remain calm when things aren`t going right to keep morale high, leader who just went accusing member being scorequeen not defending and not active to push the blame around aren`t even worthy for me to play along with


nah he's trying to take a shot at me.

everyone would send me private messages about this player and that player and what are our plans to fix this and that, so rather than respond to 100 messages I publicly posted a couple different times, specific deficiencies that people had within the alliance. These small items were mostly non-issues, but add them all together and that's why we had difficulties at spots. He wasn't happy that I included him in the criticism. When I gave specific examples, he got mad and quit. I didn't accuse him of scorequeening or anything, he read that into it. Speaking of communication, which is the one thing that initially I pointed out, he wasn't great at it. I never knew what he was up to most of the time. So I said - hey i could get a little more feedback so I know what you are up to and he went into his tirade about this and that. I corrected him and cited examples and the rest is history.

Obviously he's still sore about it. I've even tried apologizing that we had a falling out, but he's a guy who's never wrong. So c'est la vie. Most of my group said they would like to play with me again and the rest of them stuck with me so w/e.

Every alliance is going to have some pains. 99% of the time I was laid back and everything was cool. Only 'raised my voice' when people were going on about things. Everytime we got razed to 0, I posted positive messages and had the officers keeping up morale as well. It's up to the individual player on how adult they are going to handle the situation, whether leader or not.

[Angela]

1) diplomatic, A leader has to be diplomatic, you have 18 or 20 people in an alliance all with different personalities and different points of view, you have to listen to them all and then decide what you think is best for the alliance sometimes you will be right and sometimes you will be wrong but in either situation you will have people complaining because you didnt do it the way they wanted

2) patience, You need patience so you dont kill your members or yourself.

3) Have to draw the line on how much hassle you are going to accept (see part 1).

4) have officers you trust fully.

5) heart - you have to believe in your alliance and its members and care if you win or lose (once you lose heart you have lost and might as well quit as leader)

6) delegate - know your members and who is good at what, delegating alos shows trust in them.

7) never give Athena CO



Btw these arent in any order of importance just as i think of them, will add more later :)

[Martin]

Practice

[cityguy]

nah he's trying to take a shot at me.

everyone would send me private messages about this player and that player and what are our plans to fix this and that, so rather than respond to 100 messages I publicly posted a couple different times, specific deficiencies that people had within the alliance. These small items were mostly non-issues, but add them all together and that's why we had difficulties at spots. He wasn't happy that I included him in the criticism. When I gave specific examples, he got mad and quit. I didn't accuse him of scorequeening or anything, he read that into it. Speaking of communication, which is the one thing that initially I pointed out, he wasn't great at it. I never knew what he was up to most of the time. So I said - hey i could get a little more feedback so I know what you are up to and he went into his tirade about this and that. I corrected him and cited examples and the rest is history.


Lol, so you also know i taking at you, you did post that i am online and not yet defending which mean the same as scorequeen, this is the biggest humilation in my bush career and being false accused. I bet there are people in retarted to VOW for me against this accuse. How about i say you and hg login for each other to send away since nobody know? How you feel about it?

As a leader, why not ask yourself why you keep suiciding in ally attack by sending 1 tick early and organised suicide defend instead than blaming member when time go wrong. As a member, you jumped ship when ally are losing, and you expect us to give you respect as a leader? I only been in Retarted as Martin invite and not you, you doesnt worthy to be my leader at all.

[Garrett]

Lol, so you also know i taking at you, you did post that i am online and not yet defending which mean the same as scorequeen, this is the biggest humilation in my bush career and being false accused. I bet there are people in retarted to VOW for me against this accuse. How about i say you and hg login for each other to send away since nobody know? How you feel about it?

As a leader, why not ask yourself why you keep suiciding in ally attack by sending 1 tick early and organised suicide defend instead than blaming member when time go wrong. As a member, you jumped ship when ally are losing, and you expect us to give you respect as a leader? I only been in Retarted as Martin invite and not you, you doesnt worthy to be my leader at all.


It's your right to say what you want. I'm not going to get mad over that.

I only posted that you've been online and not defending at times, AFTER you blew up which was after I said you could do more on the communication front. Besides there were times ESPECIALLY early on where you were only concerned with getting land and cba to send a fake single unit since you were SO. Losing you was losing a vaulable member and asset, but you were tempermental and unstable. Thus your inability to take _any_ criticism.

Martin may have asked you in, but I was the leader. You never communicated with me, and as such, honestly you didn't deserve to be in my alliance since you weren't going to be a team player with me at the helm. If you weren't ready to recognize that I was leader, then you should have never joined which makes it your fault for your own failures from the moment go.

As far as the other round you mentioned:
I left Rena sure. I didn't leave cuz we got attacked, I left because of peoples attitudes. Yours, Zaheen's, Wacked, Samuel's, etc etc etc. I'm not going to stay where I'm not having fun (not to mention when I left the ally was rank 1 ally points... so uh whatever). I went solo and was later picked up by SOTB.

[willymchilybily]

having never been a leader i dont think i can be very helpful.. but i can say. guys you two arguing about whats gone on b4.....


is a WASTE OF TIME AND THIS THREAD!.... get over it. we all started some where. we all made mistakes. theres a whole thread on it in bushtarion discussions.

moving on:
I know when gadfly was my leader, i was still a nooob. and what helped me, like angela said, was his
patients. he painstakingly explained how things worked. even if it was a little different back then. he knew what my route was capable of and what he would like me to do with it. (i htink at the time was get bikers done quick to take down siers, but as it happened someone beat me to it :P)

you will often have to show people something to be true if they are stubborn. it took me ages to show some people in irc, few rounds ago now, that what they were beliving (the internal workings of the game) was wrong to the reality. you need to be sure in yourself of how everything works. and just be patient with those that are wrong new or arrogant.

also moral is good. jokes sections. lots of contacts. a good allaince will make sure everyone is using irc. and a good coms/military officer.

terrakan was gadflys at one stage. he always knew what he was doing. seemed to be able to organise well. so just pick people you get on well with. and that know the game.

[Silence]

Oh I take the blame for Garrett shipjumping, Cityguy as it *was* my idea.

I wasn't happy with a couple of members so I offered a place to Cheese and Garrett. Its not like they came to me with the idea. Yes they could have said no, but I knew that they were not happy in Ren so I used it as a opportunity.

**Doesnt want to get involved anymore in this battle**
~on topic~
Best leader I had was probably Welshie simple because he made strong decisions and didnt look back which puts makes you believe his decisions. Also Im a fan of letting someone know when they are doing bad =P

[Twigley]

/me jots down this thread,

I think there are a few basic requirements.

Commitment.
Faith.
Activity.
Contactability.
Politician.
Respected by members.
Feared by others.
Good attack / Defensive organisation.
Moral boosting.
Recruitment.
Communication.
Ally set up decisions.
Fun.

You don't have to have ALL of those to succeed.
But you need a good 90% of them.
And there is more...

[BlackWolf]

First of all thank you cityguy from your kind words means a lot to me.
Garret please let people think what they want to think this thread is about what is good in leader not what you did or didnt do to some person during some round (no offence). You guys can solve this all in PM and be friends again we all know that.
Now to topic...

First of all i pologiese that following text will be really one sided but i have not played under too many leaders during my time in Bushtarion as i have spent most of my time as leader...
Good leader is made of maniac, idiotism, insanity and skill.
In which amounts each of those are there is dependable of leading style. Good leader can be one sitting in channel and not doing anything or one who is in one every thing members do. Its a lot dependabe of members too. We have seen some great leaders in this game and most of those have been less democratic ones. Why? Cause they are leaders and too bad for those democracy voters but when alliance is in thigh situation democracy can be dumped to some hole and if there is no leader than there is no victory.

I was first about to make list of 10 things what leader needs but after thinking of this thread for a while i realized there is basicly 2 things that leader needs and nothing else. Also in following i will speak of leaders as male form but never underestimate females they are over all better leaders in many cases than males.

Good leader knows his weaknesses and is able to outcome those and good leader is good liar to himself. Those are main 2 things i see as any good leader requires. To explain those it doesnt really matter how good player you are or how much you know of this game, but you must be able to admit to yourself you dont know smeg and be able to get someone else to do it for you then. Same way if your not too good with people or with defences or attacks then find someone who is to do such things for you. Thats knowing of your weaknesses.
What about lieing? You can be most honest person there is on this world but there is one person you must be able to lie to -yourself. If you dont believe to impossible how are you to make your members to believe in it? Good leader is believing to his cause no matter how hard it is to be achieved. Making yourself to believe you can win in situation where you really cant is hardest thing there is.

Those are 2 things leader needs. After that comes lots of small things but all of those are less meaningfull than those two i allready mentioned. You can overcome lack of anything else but lacking those 2 and your doomed. Yes you must be able to know strengths of your team and know what to say to them at any given perioid, know how to organize stuff and be able to come along with your team but all those are things you can learn within time. Experience comes from doing and that is something everyone must do to be really good but before that you just need to know if you have those 2 things which are either making you leader or not.

As last part i say that with experience comes new challenges. If you as leader think your best there is and you have nothing to learn then your not good leader. Knowing theres always someone better than you who can kick your ass is first thing to learn. After that learning how to take everything out of your team is what makes you shine. And as last its ability to think situations from all possible angles and make defeats to benefit your team. Turning misfortune to fortune. Being leader is one big road of learning the day you think you have learned everything you can is the day you give your enemies huge advantage over you.

There you go long letter and didnt even get started really. My opinions of this matter if someone cares.

[Maxi]

Please stay on topic. If you want to discuss things that are not related, either make a new topic or move it to PM, Ty.



Quoting player tips from the manual:
A strong and a represent leader, a Communications Officer that is good with words(some people can talk others into multiple things, even recalling from a target), and an active Military Officer that can organize defense if needed and alliance attacks to improve the fun-factor and team play within the alliance. The latter one is very important; the members in an alliance should be happy and proud to be part of the team, which will make them work harder for the common goals.
Making the team work might be one of the most important things, remember that TEAM = Together Everyone Achieves More. ;)

[Lukey]

Well i have seen one new kind of leader this round... it seemed to work well.

Recruit players if im not winning ill steal other alliances big players... noob tatic.

[BlackWolf]

Even if you dont agree with actions of certain players please dont ruin good thread with whining about it. You can always go and make new post to gripes if you have something to say. Thank you.

[Lukey]

Even if you dont agree with actions of certain players please dont ruin good thread with whining about it. You can always go and make new post to gripes if you have something to say. Thank you.

Im giving an example of a leader.

[CrazyMonkey]

Good leader is made of maniac, idiotism, insanity and skill.

Who said i was a leader? O.o

A Good Leader has

Activity
Skill
He can organize Defense and Attacks
Communication
Has a patience (to organize defense with people saying "OMG!!!! Mass Stealth Attacks, Which one is real?"
Experience

[antisback]

Name must rhyme with cantisback

[willymchilybily]

Name must rhyme with cantisback


but i dont know any one clled cantisblack

[Angela]

Good leader is made of maniac, idiotism, insanity and skill.


^^ i agree

PS. I dont really think the skill in bushtarion makes a good leader, communication, organisation, making decisions and knowing when to let someone else make the decision are all skills.

[ViVi]

Communication and the ability to diffuse explosive situations. Then you need two people you can trust to fulfill their officer positions.

[Chewie]

has to be a discolegend and not care what the alliance does.

in all fairness a good leader is what you want them to be. I dont want to be in an active cut-throat alliance so imo people like Davs are good leaders e.g. in Discolegends.

[Welshie]

You need:

Knowledge of the game.
Activity.
Respect of your members.
Able to make decisions and fast.
Able to motivate people.
Patience.
To know and understand your members. Otherwise you will never sort out the politics.
Knowledge of your goals and able to motivate ally to those goals.

I think that's a good start.. most important one is respect of your members. Those guys have got to be ready to do what you tell them even if they think it will get them killed cos you don't have time to explain what you are doing.

And one more thing - you gotta be able to apologise when you **** up. Cos you will. "There's always next round" ;)

[BlackWolf]

I think i can shorten Welshies last part to one sentence:
If you tell your members to jump they shouldnt ask you why, but how high!
;)

[Garrett]

Practice

still best and most to the point

[Illumination]

I think i can shorten Welshies last part to one sentence:
If you tell your members to jump they shouldnt ask you why, but how high!
;)

I agree. However, there are different ways of obtaining that unquestioned following that you and Welshie refer to- intimidation and earned respect/trust are two such ways. Id follow the later to certain doom (and have a hell of time while doing so!!) yet you would never see me play under the leadership of someone that needs fear to motivate.


(and when things had settled on the battlefront, anyone that knows me knows that I would be saying "So, tell me why...."

[DarkSider]

Practice isn't needed to be a good leader. There are plenty players that never lead but would be much better than many of those that lead before :)

And about the fear part - I think a mixture of fear and kindness is better. Plenty fluffy leaders are too soft and the sheeps without a ferm shepherd loose their confidence in the group and follow the path they decide it's better for them. Whip them in such way they'll smile and get back in line !
*Spanks Sarah* :D

[Illumination]

lol *hangs head in shame* - I thought it was a picture of a baby :roll:

And you dont have to use fear to keep people working well together...not if you are a truly talented leader that is- but yes, I can see how the likes of you would need to invoke terror to get the group obeying :P J/K!!!

[Bobbin]

I don't really go in for a single leader. More of a Team.

Oh, and their name should be Angela/Kuda/Drak and they should care what i think and let me die as much as i like...

Thats the perfect leader :D

[BlackWolf]

Since i have never played with you illumination i wonder how you know so much about me and leading style of mine. Or your referring to something you have heard from some 3rd party and believed without even bothering to find out? huh. What that tells of you? ;)

To topic i agree with Darksider leaders are not made of experience, either you have what it takes to lead or you dont. Some persons couldnt ever be leaders no matter how hard they would practice and some would be good ones even at first try. Its more about personality and "talent" than anything else.

[Illumination]

Blackwolf, please show me where I called you any particular type of leader...Im quite certain that I did not ;)
I did quote you, perhaps that is what has confused you so?- or maybe you hear "rule by fear" and you naturally pop into your own head? I dont know, but I do know that you interpretted my words with your own meaning...how artistic of you:)

A good leader has to have his/her people believing in them, trusting them - so that the job gets done when needed. I simply believe that there are different ways of obtaining that "obedience" (not finding a better word). One way is through creating a fear in your people (think of the bad king that threatens his peasants' life if they disagree with him) and another way would be through earned respect and trust (think of the king that lives among the people and has earned their undying loyalty because of the way he supports his kingdom). Im sure that there are better ways to become "mother duck" and keep all your little ducklings in a row, those are just two ways and I think that one is truly better than the other:)

[Bobbin]

To topic i agree with Darksider leaders are not made of experience, either you have what it takes to lead or you dont. Some persons couldnt ever be leaders no matter how hard they would practice and some would be good ones even at first try. Its more about personality and "talent" than anything else.

Like me... I tried to lead a Wing once (Angela and Kuda made me do it!)

Oh yeah, and i sucked at it :P

[BlackWolf]

Illu i think if you go and read your post it gives clear between lines message of certain type and it has certain "tone" in it even if you dont clearly state so. Please if you want to hide subliminal messages to your posts at least try bit harder or you can bring your blames against persons to PM first.
If i say that iv seen really good leaders like Welshie and Angela withch latter i would follow to any round as loyally as anyone, seeing that some people are betrayers of what they did in past and as such i couldnt ever keep them real leaders. Wouldnt you take that as message to Welshie? I certainly would.
Tho i would have liked to play with both of them in reality but that was my example to you.

[willymchilybily]

im sure by now in this stage of the round (third way in?) nitros who posed the question has had enough experience leading. and enough views of what works to test them out. and see which he likes personally as a leader.


NB.
and to be honest you bunch of squabblers, the proof is in the pudding. those who lead. and succeeded(not nesscarily in rank but in achieving what the allaince wanted to achieve) have all given some input, and if it worked it worked. no matter what any one else said. if they achieved what the alliance wanted to achieve whether it was a fun round or a high score or both, then those people know if they succeeded or failed.

[Nitrous]

im sure by now in this stage of the round (third way in?) nitros who posed the question has had enough experience leading. and enough views of what works to test them out. and see which he likes personally as a leader.


Im not leading lol :D
Well not this round :P
I was just curious :D

[Martin]

oh, also be prepared that the first time you do it, it will go badly.... it might be good until the last week or the first week, but at some point, it will go tits up.

[Garrett]

I don't see how anyone can say practice doesn't help. Yes you start out with raw skills. You must have the raw skills because leadership can't be taught. However, it can be refined.

If you think practice doesn't help make a good leader then you are a flippin looney. That's fact, not flame.

[Reub]

I don't see how anyone can say practice doesn't help. Yes you start out with raw skills. You must have the raw skills because leadership can't be taught. However, it can be refined.

If you think practice doesn't help make a good leader then you are a flippin looney. That's fact, not flame.
Agreed. Practice with nearly anything will help you to improve.

For instance, if a player leads for his/her first time, they may be unfamiliar with how politics work in the community when your a leader.. as they play a big part etc.

[DarkSider]

Nobody said practice doesn't help, Garrett. I said it's not a requirement for a good leader.

[Charlie_B]

To topic i agree with Darksider leaders are not made of experience, either you have what it takes to lead or you dont. Some persons couldnt ever be leaders no matter how hard they would practice and some would be good ones even at first try. Its more about personality and "talent" than anything else.

Like me... I tried to lead a Wing once (Angela and Kuda made me do it!)

Oh yeah, and i sucked at it :P

I wouldn't say it was your personality or talent that let you down, more the fact you were always offline :P

[BlackWolf]

Man Bobbin starts to sound like awesome leader... all good leaders know to be offline as much as possible.

[Cyrus]

if you wanna be a good leader, then be me! :roll: :lol:

[Bobbin]

Man Bobbin starts to sound like awesome leader... all good leaders know to be offline as much as possible.

Hey, I'm pretty active these days... more so than usual anyways :P

[Bobbin]

To topic i agree with Darksider leaders are not made of experience, either you have what it takes to lead or you dont. Some persons couldnt ever be leaders no matter how hard they would practice and some would be good ones even at first try. Its more about personality and "talent" than anything else.

Like me... I tried to lead a Wing once (Angela and Kuda made me do it!)

Oh yeah, and i sucked at it :P

I wouldn't say it was your personality or talent that let you down, more the fact you were always offline :P

... I was not, was one of the most active in the wing!!

Well, apart from working, which i did used to do alot more than i do now :P

[harriergirl]

oh, also be prepared that the first time you do it, it will go badly.... it might be good until the last week or the first week, but at some point, it will go tits up.

Thank you for that, Now I'm scared =P

:shock:

[Nitrous]

Thanks ladies and gents for the ideas(/arguments) :P, I'll bare them in mind :D

[Podunk]

Some qualities a good leader should have... Perseverance, High level of dedication, ability to communicate with all their members and have all members respect when it comes to large decisions for the ally. Always helps to have your entire alliance trust your decisions as a leader, it's when they start to doubt their leader that an alliance starts to crumble and big internal conflicts arise.

Also a note for a leader, make sure your group can work well together and have a sense of teamwork in all aspects. Think not of yourself but think of your ally as a whole.

[Franny]

Darryl.

[BlackWolf]

Darryl.
Man that was short one... But darryl doesnt have short... beasides his good in bed and likes to do all kind of dirty stuff... what else you could need from leader?

[Cheese]

The leader that seems to have worked this round best has done his best to stay out of any fights possible... bum licked who evers winning then attacked them when they have tonnes more support.

Well done twigley for potentially winning a war game by staying outta as many wars as possible ;)

[Darryl]

Darryl.


Accidentally disbanding an alliance isn't the kind of quality I look for in a leader, as flattered as I am! :P

[Melnibone]

The leader that seems to have worked this round best has done his best to stay out of any fights possible... bum licked who evers winning then attacked them when they have tonnes more support.

Well done twigley for potentially winning a war game by staying outta as many wars as possible ;)

Many rounds have been won by politics instead of fighting, just as many wars have been won in r/l by similar methods.

If its effective is my only benchmark with tactics im not a big one for honour or others opinions so if Lude do win then why the hell not :) (btw im sooooooooooo not in Interlude)

[BlackWolf]

Sitations from Art of War by Sun Tzu

1. In the practical art of war, the best thing of all is to take the enemy's country whole and intact; to shatter and destroy it is not so good. So, too, its better to capture an army entire than to destroy it, to capture regiment, a detachment or a company entire than destroy them.

2. Hence to fight and conquer in all your battles is not supreme excellence; supreme excellence consists in breaking the enemy's resistance without fighting.

6. Therefore the skillful leader subdues the enemy's troops without any fighting; he captures their cities without laying siege to them; he overthrows their kingdom without lengthy operations in the field.

7. With his forces intact he will dispute the mastery of the Empire, and thus, without losing a man, his triumph will be complete.
This is the method of attacking by strategem.

[Cheese]

The leader that seems to have worked this round best has done his best to stay out of any fights possible... bum licked who evers winning then attacked them when they have tonnes more support.

Well done twigley for potentially winning a war game by staying outta as many wars as possible ;)

Many rounds have been won by politics instead of fighting, just as many wars have been won in r/l by similar methods.

If its effective is my only benchmark with tactics im not a big one for honour or others opinions so if Lude do win then why the hell not :) (btw im sooooooooooo not in Interlude)
I wasn't been sarcastic mate, I was being serious that this round doing bugger all but lick others bumholes has been the most successful.
Think it may be the way forward with injuries :p

[Franny]

Darryl.
Man that was short one... But darryl doesnt have short... beasides his good in bed and likes to do all kind of dirty stuff... what else you could need from leader?

More Cal's fault thats why i said Darryl and not Cal, and besdies i had a blast in hulla and we got waved non stop.

[Twigley]

Private Sent by: Pestiferous alliance HQ Thu 31st Jan, 2008. 14:04:03 GMT Reply Forward
Subject:
Cheese here...
You have pretty much knocked us well outta the way now... And in all honesty we are more pissed off with enigmas attitude to the situation, at least you are actually going for the win so how about it. You give us a few days truce while we both focus attention on enigma?



I do the bum hole licking?
It's people that come to me.

Boya.

[Elderveld]

geez, i wonder how ur ass taste like twigs.. *asks chees*

[BlackWolf]

I wonder when this whole thread turned from "what kind of leader is good one" to "i hate this and that person and their actions during current round debate"

[Cheese]

Private Sent by: Pestiferous alliance HQ Thu 31st Jan, 2008. 14:04:03 GMT Reply Forward
Subject:
Cheese here...
You have pretty much knocked us well outta the way now... And in all honesty we are more pissed off with enigmas attitude to the situation, at least you are actually going for the win so how about it. You give us a few days truce while we both focus attention on enigma?



I do the bum hole licking?
It's people that come to me.

Boya.
Well your tactics worked lovely... so I thought I'd give em a go... guess I needed to bum lick a bit more for them to work mate.

[Darryl]

Please keep posts on-topic.