injury system

[vannila]

i'm actually quite surprised no one has griped about this yet. in the beginning, it seemed to be working fine. i seemed to be getting a fair amount of troops back when i lost some, etc. obviously azzer hasn't stated the formula for getting the troops back, but i assume it has something to do with the l/f system that used to be in place. so when i attack someone i am able to get a -1 ETA on, end up getting zero'd, then get 25% of my troops back (only because i'm psolo, would have gotten 20% back otherwise) and having almost literally 0 LET, i am quite surprised. especially when my AR only rises 9%. talking to other people, they seem to be getting similar results. attacking at 88% and getting 33% troops back. is this how its supposed to be? or is there some major bug?

[Darryl]

It does seem odd.


It is at a default rate of 50% for attacking. The injury rates can increase/decrease based on the ratio of attackers/defenders - bashing a target by a large amount can result much lower injury rates, while attacking tougher opponents (which includes the valuations of any defenders) can receive higher injury rates (up to -30%/+20% difference either way).

So a wave on someone at 30% will result in a minimum of 20% injury return, yet attacking at 88% value only gives 33% return.

I read the above quote to mean that an attack at about the old 70% lawfulness threshold, when you're not "repeat attacking", and have noone attacking with you, should give about 50% injured units, so unless you have hit them before or someone else was there, I don't see why you got such a low injury rate, are you sure the numbers are accurate?

In your -1 ETA rush, what kind of attack was it? A full attack with geos, or just a LET rush? If the latter, that might explain it, as I think the injury system works in a similar way to L/ and bounty in terms of what criteria it uses to reward players.

[vannila]

it was mostly LET, but there were about 150k geos there in case he sent out

[Azzer]

Were there lots of you attacking him, or was it just you alone fighting a larger opponent?

[DarkSider]

Well i just wanted to make a gripe about it and i notice it's already here :D
So yesterday i did my first attack this round so it's no question about repeat attacking.
Target was 68% of me, i sent alone on him and somebody else followed 4 ticks behind me. So even after i landed, the second inc was just eta 1. I lost 6.6 mil gards in 1 tick, and i get back 213k :shock: 3.3% injury for attacking lawfull ?!


Target #2 72% of me, completly alone, i lost 4.3 mil gards last tick and i get 950k gards injuried.

Target #3 74%, all alone, 4.5 mil gards lost last tick, 372k injuried :cry:

[Nonny]

I just got approx. 25% as a pure solo attacking at 82%.

Now I've not been the nicest so far, so if the old law/fame calcs are in force that could be affecting it? I'd like to know though!

However, it was the first attack on this target by me and there was no-one else attacking at any time with me or around me. The whole kapoodle. LET's, gardies and land stealers. Does this figure sound about right to others?

[Azzer]

I'll certainly be looking in to all of this after I've finished my own holidays and celebrations here!

But do bear in mind possibilities as repeat attacking and other attackers attacking with you (though would need to be at the same time, not 4 ticks behind as DarkSider had).... make sure you can rule out 100% with zero doubt in your mind any possibilities like this before thinking injuries are below bar... and then I'd appreciate you telling me if you've had injury rates working fine in X instance, but not in Y instance (eg "when just 1 mil terrorists killed me when I attacked at 100%, and they hit in one go, I got 55% injury rate... but then attacking at 110% of my score a mix of assassins, ninjas and secret agents killed me and in that one tick I definitely only got back 30% of all my units") - you'd need to check the amounts you get back too, eg make sure you get back 30% of every unit type you had present... if you get different return rates for your gardeners, geos and your LET units you attacked with, then please let me know - anything that could help me track down the possibility of a bug will help :)

[Jorizz]

I suggest making a clear table so it doesn't turn into some vague system like the lawfullness/bounty system etc.

Just when attacking >30% you get 10% back, attacking at 30-35% you get 15% etc etc. And when attacking, the % you get back is divided by the times you hit this person in a span of let's say 3, 4 days. And it would add up the total score of the attackers and if the target is 30% of the total attackers score they'd get 15% back. Just make it nice and simple, because it's made to encourage more "brave" attacks, or staying home defending yourself when you're about to take some heavy losses etc but if you can't depend, rely on it this is not going to work but it's just going to turn out into a lottery.

[pinpower]

tbh, this round (cos of injuries) i dont think ive recalled an attack once because of defence...i always just think...meh, im not gonna loose everything...might as well stay

also its allowed me to be able to send, and go offline without worrying to much about loosing everything

[Nonny]

I haven't noticed any issues in defence. Attacked from above I've had up to 80% injury rates!

I've done my usual of not being around when SAS arrived so lost a load to them. Whilst I didn't study the numbers I don't recall them attracting my attention as bad.

Playing silly buggers with hippies only in attack, I actually got 70% injury if I remember right.

The recent one is still in my news though so I'll message you the details Azzer.

[Haplo]

I must say I like the injury system :P And not just because I went puppets this round. Now there will be a lot more troops flying around as no one is really, truly, utterly killed. Kind of fun actually.

[vannila]

i too like it. i like the idea of a second chance type of thing. but it hardly seems worth it when i get so few troops back :/ and the attack i rushed on, there were other people...not too many, or too big i don't think...i wasn't on anyone else's tick though :/ and i was the only one with LET it seemed.

[SadYear]

Returning mob : Hippy 1,000,000 870,498

I lost 129,502 hippies in a last tick defense on a zeroed mate, massed by 3 guys on same tick and I had two other allies of mine that were trying to defend too.

No LETs from me were involved in the battle, whereas they were a lot of them from the opponents and yet I only get a few hippys injured ?

Hippy [7,505] 17

Injured : 7,505
Dead : 129,502
Ratio : ~ 0.05795 i.e. less than 5.8% ?

Something is wrong. Very very wrong. Or am I not getting something ? :?

Edit :

From that same mob (only hips/yobs/smallies), I lost 209,996 staff and here's what I got back :
Hippy [7,505]
Yob [4,113]
Small Droid [915]

Which is only 12,533 staff.

The total ratio (injured/dead) is : ~ 0.05969 i.e. less than 6%.

Edit 2 :

Same battle, but a friend's troops, not mines :

You sent 35,881,369 employees to defend.
You recalled 34,505,829 employees that were sent to defend.
Total : 1,375,540 dead staff

Injuries :
Hippy [25,188] 18 Protestor Guru [44,428] 18
Hippy Van [1,024] 18 News Van [1,614] 18
Yob [16,443] 18
Total : 88,697 injured staff

Total ratio (injured/dead) : ~0.06448 i.e. less than 6.5%.

[Twigley]

Ok before you read.
I see the funny side of this.
More of a suggestion gripe than anything.

So a big solo garg just got raped of his staff.
He will get Nearly all of those back in 3 hours.
How is that fair?
Now he has a maxxed out AR, lower score for 18 ticks to get more land, impossible to steal on due to AR + having the ability to have others trigger on him.

Azzer do something.
Im tired of it :S

Btw just to say again: I am only moaning a bit. Its more of a "Azzer - its overpowered".

Damn you solo man!

P.s

[Silence]

Ok before you read.
I see the funny side of this.
More of a suggestion gripe than anything.

So a big solo garg just got raped of his staff.
He will get Nearly all of those back in 3 hours.
How is that fair?
Now he has a maxxed out AR, lower score for 18 ticks to get more land, impossible to steal on due to AR + having the ability to have others trigger on him.

Azzer do something.
Im tired of it :S

Btw just to say again: I am only moaning a bit. Its more of a "Azzer - its overpowered".

Damn you solo man!

P.s


You whine when you cant get through. Now you whine when you kill him!

Pfft your time of the month by any chance?

[Cheese]

Ok before you read.
I see the funny side of this.
More of a suggestion gripe than anything.

So a big solo garg just got raped of his staff.
He will get Nearly all of those back in 3 hours.
How is that fair?
Now he has a maxxed out AR, lower score for 18 ticks to get more land, impossible to steal on due to AR + having the ability to have others trigger on him.

Azzer do something.
Im tired of it :S

Btw just to say again: I am only moaning a bit. Its more of a "Azzer - its overpowered".

Damn you solo man!

P.s

1stly I did warn Lukey about what would happen in the resistance thread.... So you were all well aware what would happen.
Oh and 2ndly it's 12 ticks for it to return for me ;)
And finally ask Azzer I logged out before mid day and only just got back now :)

[Souls]

I lost just under 20mil troops and got a 25% return rate on it. Now, I wouldn't be complaining, but why 25% for attacking above me, and staying with 3 defenders, two of which were above me, one which was double my score? It wasn't a repeat attack, either. :S

[Twigley]

Ok before you read.
I see the funny side of this.
More of a suggestion gripe than anything.

So a big solo garg just got raped of his staff.
He will get Nearly all of those back in 3 hours.
How is that fair?
Now he has a maxxed out AR, lower score for 18 ticks to get more land, impossible to steal on due to AR + having the ability to have others trigger on him.

Azzer do something.
Im tired of it :S

Btw just to say again: I am only moaning a bit. Its more of a "Azzer - its overpowered".

Damn you solo man!

P.s

1stly I did warn Lukey about what would happen in the resistance thread.... So you were all well aware what would happen.
Oh and 2ndly it's 12 ticks for it to return for me ;)
And finally ask Azzer I logged out before mid day and only just got back now :)


12 ticks? :P
You lucky foo :P

P.s Silence - Your not funny and i aint getting bothered what you say - Cheese knows that i have nothing against him and its all fun fun ;)

[Chewie]

I have noticed so far with the units that are getting poor returns through the innjury system are inns or NLT's. This could be a possible parralel to the old bounty system where killing these units gained poor bounty whereas now these units get low injury rates. Makes sense really.

[SadYear]

I have noticed so far with the units that are getting poor returns through the innjury system are inns or NLT's. This could be a possible parralel to the old bounty system where killing these units gained poor bounty whereas now these units get low injury rates. Makes sense really.

Very good point, even though I don't really care 'bout the reason why it's not working properly. I just wanna see it fixed. :(

[DarkSider]

I got poor injuries on let too.

[Chewie]

you attacked at 68% which would have been unlawful in age 4. 70% was the lawfull bench mark.

[Souls]

you attacked at 68% which would have been unlawful in age 4. 70% was the lawfull bench mark.

Ding, it was closer to 67%. ;)

[Hobo]

[close] 7,000,000 hostile Werewolf attacked, killing 8,889,737 allied staff.
[close] 3,103,612 hostile Vampire attacked, killing 9,443,246 allied staff.
[raised] 358,885 corpses twitched into life, becoming Lesser Vampire.
[close] 258,057 hostile Mummy attacked, killing 303,658 allied staff.
[close] 505,701 hostile Zombie ate the brains of 163,830 allied staff.
[raised] 96,358 Zombie rose from the dead.

Died: 18,800,471 [£61,384,114,700] friendlies dead.
Converted: 455,243 [£9,692,838,000] friendlies converted.

Ok thats what died and what was converted

Gardener [1,805,646] 8 Harvester [474,835] 8
Wheelbarrower [1,509] 8 Geo-Phys Thief [16,356] 8

thats what im getting back, was a 2nd attack at 40% maybe that made a difference?

but it isnt 25 % more like 13%

[Enrico]

Not sure Hobo, how converting units are calculated in the injury system, but maybe ALL staff killed by convering units are lost, not just those that turn up as converts??

[pinpower]

didnt want to make a whole new topic..

INJURY SUCKS!...i will elaborate later when i dont have an exam to revise for

[Dennis]

How crap is this:

Attacking a target @ 70%< and who I never attacked before and I got a general injury rate of 21,29%

[[Thinking]]

i kind of like the new system in a way. its nice becouse ive been attacked and zeroed like a million times this round but in a few hours have pretty much the same amount. im not afraid of defending against anything now as it doesnt have any effect. idk if this is becouse im not losing the right amount of troops or what but im pretty much not dieing.

[pinpower]

this isnt a gripe...just wanted to comment on something about injuries but it doesnt warrant its own thread so i just put it in the first injury thread i saw

Last round to portal in government value:

25 2343 Canes_Pugnaces John_Locke Lost Upstanding antilope89ddd 27,400 £32,108,275,118


you needed to have a score of ~32billion or more...

This round (right now with just over 8 days left) having a score of ~32 billion will put you at value rank 58...

I just hadnt thought about how injury was boosting the scores up, a certainly not by that much...considering alot of people will prob still have seeds stocked up to plant and stuff...wonder what the cap to portal will be this round...

[willymchilybily]

yeh pinpower. not to mention that due to the higher points needed to get onto the portal that late starting is even more detramental.

I think this new high injury rate has made the development multiplier totally redundant.

I hope in the next round:

azzer has fixed attacking 70% and above range to yield a higher than 50% troop return. and any honourable attack to have the minimum of 50% troop return.

I hope the injuries are tweaked such that they dont cause people to keep score so well. and set the bar to high for new comers.

I hope there is stil an encentive to be solo next round.
I hope the anti rape is changed in a way similar to how i suggested or better. such that if some one triggers when your attacking for 1 that you dont get wtf pwned.
and just for the fun of it
I hope some one plays poms route like the puppets route using hypnotists as a sure fire killer dominates the round, gaining score through bribes and land.